Rooney Rule

Old Boy
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2014 7:49 pm

Re: Rooney Rule

Postby Old Boy » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:56 pm

Just because you play in an orchestra doesn't mean you'll make a good conductor !
Ian M
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:09 am
Location: 5 miles from Chepstow, Monmouthshire

Re: Rooney Rule

Postby Ian M » Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:02 pm

True, but unless you can read music, there's no chance.....
Mytshot
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:25 pm
Location: Mytchett

Re: Rooney Rule

Postby Mytshot » Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:09 pm

shotshammo wrote:One of the obvious problems of being a top flight manager is the diversity of nationalities in a squad, each has their own prejudices, re religion, colour, way of life etc, etc. The argument that a coloured person would struggle to manage this scenario is a valid one.


I'm intrigued to know what that argument is. Are you saying that a black person born and raised in this country is less likely to be able to deal successfully with a diverse team of players than a white person? Why would that be?
callumatfc
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 3:20 pm
Location: South London

Re: Rooney Rule

Postby callumatfc » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:33 pm

Whilst it would be great to not have to need something like this, there are structural reasons which stop people of colour, people of particular genders, or people with particular sexualities or disabilities getting jobs. Structural and institutionalised barriers prevent a meritocracy from truly existing. Until they are overcome, then these types of rules will be needed to try ensure equitable access to roles. Treating people as 'equals' when equality isn't a reality only helps to serve those who benefit from structural and institutional prejudice.
Old Boy
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2014 7:49 pm

Re: Rooney Rule

Postby Old Boy » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:19 pm

Err yer, what Callumatfc said..... nuff said
hepcat
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:50 pm

Re: Rooney Rule

Postby hepcat » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:40 pm

This is such a vast topic that you can go all over the place and still end up nowhere. What makes a good coach/manager ? Steve Wiggley was probably the most qualified coach Aldershot ever had, but his sides weren't that great to watch and he couldn't get us into the Ryman Premier. So it's not FA badges alone. You can't deny that black managers are very few (I don't know the figure for coaches-I know Vierra is at Man City and some others make up the back room staff) and the problems they've complained about are -ironically-being echoed now by "Young British Managers" who can't get jobs as Chairmen strongly favour foreign coaches. There probably is a lot of old fashioned prejudice about. I can remember in the 70's the popular load of BS readily quoted and believed was that "Black players may be good elsewhere (a begrudging nod that Pele Eusebio Garrincha et al were class) but they cant play in England because they're no good in the cold weather" !!! This is TRUE. People said this-not realising at all that by their own logic white players are crap in the sunshine ! It was-along with a lot else-shameful and ignorant. I dare say there is a "Black people cant manage" myth in many boardrooms.
But how to put it right ? Basically ignore all but the merit of someone for the job-but how to make that happen ? I can't help thinking this will end up as no more than token gesturism to allow the FA to pretend they're doing something. I notice elsewhere that if you spot a PC zealot or virtue signaller, you spot someone desperately trying to hide their own racism/homophobia or whatever , and that in itself is another part of the problem. I think the FA is just doing a PC and virtue signalling exercise.Then you have ethnic on ethnic racism. To their utter horror the equality commission under Trevor Phillips found that it was actually mixed ethnic interviewing panels that were far more likely to give the job to a white candidate (totally the opposite to what they were expecting, as all white panels gave a good % to ethnic candidates) It was discovered this was due to prejudices such as a Muslim wouldn't give the job to a Hindu or Jewish candidate ; African interviewers would not consider African's from another part of the African continent , a Hindu wouldn't favour a Muslim or lower caste...... So you're in a permanent minefield. How to solve ? Too many politicians are obsessed not with meritocratic equality-which we should be aiming for-but the ludicrous political dogma of proportional equality (IE if 10% of the population are bald then 10% of all teachers Doctors, road sweeps and so on should be bald. The world just doesn't work like that. Hopefully in time things will be more equal; prejudices will die out and you wont need any more well meaning but ultimately patronising and meaningless initiatives like this
lanternhall
Posts: 395
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:37 am

Re: Rooney Rule

Postby lanternhall » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:52 pm

FloridaPhil wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42623021

Surely, people should be given a job based on their suitability or their skills, not based on their race or colour?

I actually believe that positive discrimination choosing someone because of their colour is racism itself.
Richard Petty
Posts: 195
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:12 am
Location: Farnborough

Re: Rooney Rule

Postby Richard Petty » Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:30 pm

lanternhall wrote:
FloridaPhil wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42623021

Surely, people should be given a job based on their suitability or their skills, not based on their race or colour?

I actually believe that positive discrimination choosing someone because of their colour is racism itself.


Spot on Lanterhall.

As I said in my earlier post "Equality should mean equal not advantaged which is now becoming the case"

But that isn't just a question of colour that should be the case whether we are talking about any sort of discrimination, race, sex, disability or even lifestyle choices, as long as there is nothing that stops a person being capable of doing a job there should be no discrimination full stop whether its negative or positive discrimination.
lanternhall
Posts: 395
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:37 am

Re: Rooney Rule

Postby lanternhall » Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:17 pm

hepcat wrote:This is such a vast topic that you can go all over the place and still end up nowhere. What makes a good coach/manager ? Steve Wiggley was probably the most qualified coach Aldershot ever had, but his sides weren't that great to watch and he couldn't get us into the Ryman Premier. So it's not FA badges alone. You can't deny that black managers are very few (I don't know the figure for coaches-I know Vierra is at Man City and some others make up the back room staff) and the problems they've complained about are -ironically-being echoed now by "Young British Managers" who can't get jobs as Chairmen strongly favour foreign coaches. There probably is a lot of old fashioned prejudice about. I can


remember in the 70's the popular load of BS readily quoted and believed was that "Black players may be good elsewhere (a begrudging nod that Pele Eusebio Garrincha et al were class) but they cant play in England because they're no good in the cold weather" !!! This is TRUE. People said this-not realising at all that by their own logic white players are crap in the sunshine ! It was-along with a lot else-shameful and ignorant. I dare say there is a "Black people cant manage" myth in many boardrooms.
But how to put it right ? Basically ignore all but the merit of someone for the job-but how to make that happen ? I can't help thinking this will end up as no more than token gesturism to allow the FA to pretend they're doing something. I notice elsewhere that if you spot a PC zealot or virtue signaller, you spot someone desperately trying to hide their own racism/homophobia or whatever , and that in itself is another part of the problem. I think the FA is just doing a PC and virtue signalling exercise.Then you have ethnic on ethnic racism. To their utter horror the equality commission under Trevor Phillips found that it was actually mixed ethnic interviewing panels that were far more likely to give the job to a white candidate (totally the opposite to what they were expecting, as all white panels gave a good % to ethnic candidates) It was discovered this was due to prejudices such as a Muslim wouldn't give the job to a Hindu or Jewish candidate ; African interviewers would not consider African's from another part of the African continent , a Hindu wouldn't favour a Muslim or lower caste...... So you're in a permanent minefield. How to solve ? Too many politicians are obsessed not with meritocratic equality-which we should be aiming for-but the ludicrous political dogma of proportional equality (IE if 10% of the population are bald then 10% of all teachers Doctors, road sweeps and so on should be bald. The world just doesn't work like that. Hopefully in time things will be more equal; prejudices will die out and you wont need any more well meaning but ultimately patronising and meaningless initiatives like this

So when do people wake up and realise
I am totally pissed off with political correctness

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