Shahid Azeem Out out out!!!

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Richard Petty
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Location: Farnborough
Re: Shahid Azeem Out out out!!!

Post by Richard Petty » Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:42 pm

The problem with your assumptions abee is that you are basing those assumptions on how you as an experienced businessman would have handled the situation and what you would have said. This is not meant in any way to be disrespectful to the trust but I don't think they have handled it that way. I do think from what we have heard that you are probably correct when you say that Tommy has as Trust Chairman disagreed with some of the decisions made. But also based on what has been said by both the board and the trust itself I don't believe that those disagreements were properly articulated to the rest of the board at the time and certainly not to the extent of saying it was reaching a point where resignation was being considered.

Your suggestion of a facilitator would make sense but in my opinion we are too late for now as the manner and wording in which the trust announced its resignation and the finality of it by resigning the position rather than the person that particular ship has probably well and truly sailed. This is absolutely not a criticism of Tommy who I have a great deal of respect for but if the trust wants to try and get back on the club board then they would have to change their chairman and see if the replacement can rebuild the relationship from scratch. Tommy I am sure would be the first one to agree that after all that has been said he could not comfortably sit round the boardroom table again.

By the way kind of you to suggest me as a potential facilitator but I can think of a number of people who I would suggest as better and more respected by both sides than I would be.

abee
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:03 pm
Re: Shahid Azeem Out out out!!!

Post by abee » Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:21 pm

Richard Petty wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:42 pm
What your post seems to be suggesting is we should believe by the trust resigning their seat that out of the eight directors seven of whom are all experienced and successful businessmen who were sat round the boardroom table while the trust were members Tommy is the only one out of the whole board who could see that certain decisions being made were the wrong ones. Much as I like Tommy I cant honestly see that myself and as you know some of the key members of our board if your honest I don't think you can either.
Why do you assume that the rest of the board were in unanimous agreement with decisions being made??

Brian Bloomfield has stated that when he was on the board he on a number of occasions voted against proposals and it could well be that Tommy was not always alone with his objections but they still were carried by a majority. You may know of course given your relationship/access to the 'movers and shakers' that Tommy was always the only one out of step but I don't immediately accept that not do I agree with your conclusion that the other 'experienced and successful businessmen' were necessarily all in favour of what was going on unless you can confirm that you've heard it from them individually.

Indeed Richard, given that the Club is reportedly losing £25k in hard cash every month (attributed to Shahid at the Fans Forum) then it would be nice to think that not all of the 'experienced and successful businessmen' on the board are totally happy with things on and off the field.....if they are and as you seem to suggest voted for this state of affairs then you're in more trouble than I had thought.

Anyway I've had my little 'burst' now......I'm sad to see the Club in this state and when the 2018 accounts are released you can all add what I assume will be a loss for the f/y ended June 2018 to the forecast £300k loss for the f/y ending June 2019 and then the 'experienced and successful businessmen' can explain to shareholders and supporters how things are all unfolding as they planned and (if you are correct) all voted for bar Tommy.

Thanks for having me and being retired I just sort of got involved in shotsweb for an interest.......I have nothing more to add so I'll not bore you guys and gals anymore but good luck to Aldershot and I sincerely hope that you pull out of this nose dive. I'll be watching with interest and I assure you that I have nothing but goodwill towards Aldershot. Indeed it was I who arranged the pre season friendly with Brentford in July 2017 and as your board will confirm (ask them by all means) Brentford waived their usual friendly percentage (40% of the net gate) paid their own costs including all travel expenses (usually charged against the net gate) and brought their full first team squad. I believe that the match was worth £8k - £10k to Aldershot.....I can't remember exactly.

I would love nothing more than for Aldershot to work their way back up the league pyramid so good fortune and hopefully a change of luck to the Club, the board, the Trust and all Shots supporters.

I'll drop out from posting on here for now but look in from time to time and always check for your results.

Richard Petty
Posts: 934
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:12 pm
Location: Farnborough
Re: Shahid Azeem Out out out!!!

Post by Richard Petty » Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:42 pm

You are right I accept it could have been that decisions were made on a majority vote basis and I had already edited my post before you posted because that had occurred to me as well but that still doesn't change the point I was trying to make. I certainly don't know whether this was the case or not but it was never mentioned in the trusts statements so we can only speculate. The truth of the matter is that until the resignation no one had a clue there was any sort of disagreement and whatever that disagreement was must have been very close to the time of resigning because up until that point Tommy was full of praise for the working relationship that he and the trust had with the board.

You mentioned Brian Bloomfield leaving the board that was nearly two years ago in Feb 2017 so there was only an overlap of him and Tommy on the board for 6 months so any matters that Brian may have voted against are highly unlikely to have any connection to the more recent decision or decisions that Tommy may have disagreed with which led to the trust resigning.
Last edited by Richard Petty on Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Quietobserver
Posts: 187
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:18 pm
Re: Shahid Azeem Out out out!!!

Post by Quietobserver » Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:45 pm

abee wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:21 pm
Richard Petty wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:42 pm
What your post seems to be suggesting is we should believe by the trust resigning their seat that out of the eight directors seven of whom are all experienced and successful businessmen who were sat round the boardroom table while the trust were members Tommy is the only one out of the whole board who could see that certain decisions being made were the wrong ones. Much as I like Tommy I cant honestly see that myself and as you know some of the key members of our board if your honest I don't think you can either.
Why do you assume that the rest of the board were in unanimous agreement with decisions being made??

Brian Bloomfield has stated that when he was on the board he on a number of occasions voted against proposals and it could well be that Tommy was not always alone with his objections but they still were carried by a majority. You may know of course given your relationship/access to the 'movers and shakers' that Tommy was always the only one out of step but I don't immediately accept that not do I agree with your conclusion that the other 'experienced and successful businessmen' were necessarily all in favour of what was going on unless you can confirm that you've heard it from them individually.

Indeed Richard, given that the Club is reportedly losing £25k in hard cash every month (attributed to Shahid at the Fans Forum) then it would be nice to think that not all of the 'experienced and successful businessmen' on the board are totally happy with things on and off the field.....if they are and as you seem to suggest voted for this state of affairs then you're in more trouble than I had thought.

Anyway I've had my little 'burst' now......I'm sad to see the Club in this state and when the 2018 accounts are released you can all add what I assume will be a loss for the f/y ended June 2018 to the forecast £300k loss for the f/y ending June 2019 and then the 'experienced and successful businessmen' can explain to shareholders and supporters how things are all unfolding as they planned and (if you are correct) all voted for bar Tommy.

Thanks for having me and being retired I just sort of got involved in shotsweb for an interest.......I have nothing more to add so I'll not bore you guys and gals anymore but good luck to Aldershot and I sincerely hope that you pull out of this nose dive. I'll be watching with interest and I assure you that I have nothing but goodwill towards Aldershot. Indeed it was I who arranged the pre season friendly with Brentford in July 2017 and as your board will confirm (ask them by all means) Brentford waived their usual friendly percentage (40% of the net gate) paid their own costs including all travel expenses (usually charged against the net gate) and brought their full first team squad. I believe that the match was worth £8k - £10k to Aldershot.....I can't remember exactly.

I would love nothing more than for Aldershot to work their way back up the league pyramid so good fortune and hopefully a change of luck to the Club, the board, the Trust and all Shots supporters.

I'll drop out from posting on here for now but look in from time to time and always check for your results.
I sincerely hope you stick around and still post on the board.

Whether people agree or disagree with your views, you clearly are very knowledgeable and experienced, like Richard and Brian, etc.

I've thoroughly enjoyed reading your insight, and I'm pretty sure based on other members posts, that I'm not the only one.

So in summary, don't go silent! (Please).

Ian Barnett
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:27 pm
Re: Shahid Azeem Out out out!!!

Post by Ian Barnett » Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:47 pm

DonnyDarko2012 wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:16 pm
Ian Barnett wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:21 pm
I don’t think the club fully appreciated the hard work that was undertaken
Nail

Hit

Head
Just to avoid any confusion with you taking my quote out of context, which was specifically in relation to the effort and time that went into the Community Stand.

Redshot66
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:19 pm
Re: Shahid Azeem Out out out!!!

Post by Redshot66 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:05 pm

Very interesting insight and seeing how Brentford have progressed on and off the field I would hope it’s something we could aspire to,that’s of course if the people running our club really want that,I have my doubts,hopefully I am wrong.

Josh
Posts: 107
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 4:34 pm
Re: Shahid Azeem Out out out!!!

Post by Josh » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:15 pm

Ian Barnett wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:21 pm

It’s fine moaning but as per the other thread, fans should ask themselves what they can do for the Club and the Trust rather than just moaning on Shotsweb. In the time I was at the Trust only one person proactively approached The Trust to volunteer! That’s the major difference between the likes of AFC Wimbledon, Hereford and Wrexham - Sadly I don’t think enough of our fans actually care enough.


I certainly don't care enough. Work a 55 hour week and I all want is for some vaguely entertaining football at the end of the week. I haven't the time nor inclination to help out.

Respect for the people who do care enough. Met a volunteer after Guiseley away and was seriously impressed by his dedication to the club.
Last edited by Josh on Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Birdman
Posts: 1319
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:47 am
Location: Aldershot
Re: Shahid Azeem Out out out!!!

Post by Birdman » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:53 pm

Josh, would you care to re-edit your post. The comment linked to me is actually a quote from Ian Barnett that was part of my post on p5.

Ta muchly.

team from clanmell
Posts: 292
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:44 pm
Re: Shahid Azeem Out out out!!!

Post by team from clanmell » Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:03 pm

ABee
Thank you, you really are a top fella. Went to Brentford couple of times last season with the other Brentford fan.thoroughly enjoyed it. My Love is a great team from Fulham.
I too have a massive soft spot for Aldershot. Was were i watched my first proffesional football match.
Aldershot need business people like you, i hope i am wrong as they seem to be sinking quicker than i thought. You know your stuff, were only on this planet once and you cant take your money with you. Bet your misses is bored of you being at home now......
Good luck to you and look after yourself.

Dom Sterlings Left Leg
Posts: 61
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:00 pm
Re: Shahid Azeem Out out out!!!

Post by Dom Sterlings Left Leg » Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:08 pm

abee wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:21 pm
Richard Petty wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:42 pm
What your post seems to be suggesting is we should believe by the trust resigning their seat that out of the eight directors seven of whom are all experienced and successful businessmen who were sat round the boardroom table while the trust were members Tommy is the only one out of the whole board who could see that certain decisions being made were the wrong ones. Much as I like Tommy I cant honestly see that myself and as you know some of the key members of our board if your honest I don't think you can either.
Why do you assume that the rest of the board were in unanimous agreement with decisions being made??

Brian Bloomfield has stated that when he was on the board he on a number of occasions voted against proposals and it could well be that Tommy was not always alone with his objections but they still were carried by a majority. You may know of course given your relationship/access to the 'movers and shakers' that Tommy was always the only one out of step but I don't immediately accept that not do I agree with your conclusion that the other 'experienced and successful businessmen' were necessarily all in favour of what was going on unless you can confirm that you've heard it from them individually.

Indeed Richard, given that the Club is reportedly losing £25k in hard cash every month (attributed to Shahid at the Fans Forum) then it would be nice to think that not all of the 'experienced and successful businessmen' on the board are totally happy with things on and off the field.....if they are and as you seem to suggest voted for this state of affairs then you're in more trouble than I had thought.

Anyway I've had my little 'burst' now......I'm sad to see the Club in this state and when the 2018 accounts are released you can all add what I assume will be a loss for the f/y ended June 2018 to the forecast £300k loss for the f/y ending June 2019 and then the 'experienced and successful businessmen' can explain to shareholders and supporters how things are all unfolding as they planned and (if you are correct) all voted for bar Tommy.

Thanks for having me and being retired I just sort of got involved in shotsweb for an interest.......I have nothing more to add so I'll not bore you guys and gals anymore but good luck to Aldershot and I sincerely hope that you pull out of this nose dive. I'll be watching with interest and I assure you that I have nothing but goodwill towards Aldershot. Indeed it was I who arranged the pre season friendly with Brentford in July 2017 and as your board will confirm (ask them by all means) Brentford waived their usual friendly percentage (40% of the net gate) paid their own costs including all travel expenses (usually charged against the net gate) and brought their full first team squad. I believe that the match was worth £8k - £10k to Aldershot.....I can't remember exactly.

I would love nothing more than for Aldershot to work their way back up the league pyramid so good fortune and hopefully a change of luck to the Club, the board, the Trust and all Shots supporters.

I'll drop out from posting on here for now but look in from time to time and always check for your results.
Can you please stick around?

In fact can you get involved? You must be bored in retirement ;) and need one more challenge... Facinated by your comments, ive seldom read anything more informative on this message board.

Shots1954
Posts: 371
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:31 pm
Re: Shahid Azeem Out out out!!!

Post by Shots1954 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:47 pm

Richard Petty wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:42 pm
The problem with your assumptions abee is that you are basing those assumptions on how you as an experienced businessman would have handled the situation and what you would have said. This is not meant in any way to be disrespectful to the trust but I don't think they have handled it that way. I do think from what we have heard that you are probably correct when you say that Tommy has as Trust Chairman disagreed with some of the decisions made. But also based on what has been said by both the board and the trust itself I don't believe that those disagreements were properly articulated to the rest of the board at the time and certainly not to the extent of saying it was reaching a point where resignation was being considered.

Your suggestion of a facilitator would make sense but in my opinion we are too late for now as the manner and wording in which the trust announced its resignation and the finality of it by resigning the position rather than the person that particular ship has probably well and truly sailed. This is absolutely not a criticism of Tommy who I have a great deal of respect for but if the trust wants to try and get back on the club board then they would have to change their chairman and see if the replacement can rebuild the relationship from scratch. Tommy I am sure would be the first one to agree that after all that has been said he could not comfortably sit round the boardroom table again.

By the way kind of you to suggest me as a potential facilitator but I can think of a number of people who I would suggest as better and more respected by both sides than I would be.
Richard, with respect you are making assumptions!

In my opinion there is clearly something seriously wrong and this needs investigating to protect the Club brought back by Graham Brookland and Terry Owens.

The clear knowledge and experience of someone like Abee maybe invaluable if we are to survive an apparant 300k loss!

Richard Petty
Posts: 934
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:12 pm
Location: Farnborough
Re: Shahid Azeem Out out out!!!

Post by Richard Petty » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:17 am

I don't disagree with your first sentance Shots 1954 but what you have quite rightly highlighted about assumptions actually applies to any of us who are posting on this subject because unless you are someone posting who was actually in the room at the time or have access to minutes and accounts etc, assumptions or at best educated guesses is all that any of us can offer. Apart from personal opinions of course

In terms of you suggesting an Investigation frankly that suggests a mystery when in my opinion there is no mystery its actually very simple Income is not matching outgoings.

The drop in income for this year was unexpected and is due I would assume (there's that word again) solely to the drop in attendances now you could argue (and it has been) that the budget should not have been based on the last two seasons but based on a worse case scenario. To be fair now in Dec I would probably agree but had you asked me or anyone else back in April (or earlier) when the budgets will have been put together most people would have felt confident that we would at least match last years attendance figures because at that time no one had the benefit of the hindsight.

The losses for this year 2018/2019 have thankfully been covered by further investment but that does not solve the problem long term and the trading loss must not be allowed to creep over the current projected figure so that at least we end up (if you include the investment) balancing the books for this financial year. However now the club has had the wake up call of a bad season those running the club do indeed need to address the long term issues and start thinking about 2019/2020 because as Shahid himself (and Lewis Scard) said at the Fans forum relying on investment is not a sustainable business model and cant be relied on for subsequent years, investment should be for business growth not business continuity.

The problem that the board face is the stark reality that commercially Mark Butler is probably already selling close to as much as he can so increasing the income pretty much rests on increasing attendances and unless there is a big change in our fortunes that's going to be a challenge to say the least but its a challenge that needs to be taken head on and is probably the one thing that we can try to do to help. Of course Its not easy when the teams not doing well but inviting friends along, bringing family, not allowing ourselves to get dragged off doing other things on a matchday, buying half season tickets as Christmas presents etc, etc..... are all on their own just small steps but if enough people do just one of those things it can make a big difference.

Cutting costs is not something that we as fans can generally help with, that's something that only those working at the club can control and from what I see when I am around the ground as a volunteer there is certainly no lack of discipline when it comes to spending so making further cuts will be very difficult but again just like the small steps of income generation small savings wherever they can be made can add up to quite a lot over time.

Its easy to play the blame game but the problem with that game is that it ends up distracting everyone from the actual task in hand and so much valuable time gets wasted addressing it that if your not careful nothing gets done and it drags everyone down emotionally and mentally to the point where things end up getting worse not better. In another thread there is a post which if its genuine is from a player who is understandably upset at something that was said on here about him and he has felt compelled to respond. That's not encouraging him to do better that's making him feel worse and that mental negativity could affect his performance on the pitch. In my opinion threads like this one can have exactly the same effect on those running our club and the hard working staff the club employs. Maybe its time this thread was given a deadline to close before it causes more harm than good

That's just my opinion of course, no facts, lots of assumptions and another late night because I made the stupid mistake of checking out shotsweb when sending an email, when will I learn :roll:

Goodnight all or good morning if quite sensibly no one is reading this until the morning
Last edited by Richard Petty on Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Marcus ex W.Midlands Shot
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 8:25 pm
Location: Aldershot
Re: Shahid Azeem Out out out!!!

Post by Marcus ex W.Midlands Shot » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:15 am

Richard Petty wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:17 am
In terms of you suggesting an Investigation frankly that suggests a mystery when in my opinion there is no mystery its actually very simple Income is not matching outgoings.

The drop in income for this year was unexpected and is due I would assume (there's that word again) solely to the drop in attendances ... had you asked me or anyone else back in April (or earlier) when the budgets will have been put together most people would have felt confident that we would at least match last years attendance figures because at that time no one had the benefit of the hindsight.
Greetings all who remember my name. I've been abroad for 18 months so haven't been posting much. It's the middle of the day here, not the middle of the night.

I agree entirely with Richard Petty's point above. Why do people feel the need for an 'investigation' or a purge of the board? The team isn't as good as it has been in the last two years and attendances are down as a result, which has created a hole in the budget as we're not matching the projected figure.

We can all be experts about why the team isn't so good. My two pence worth is that we were very fortunate in 16-17 to have had Mensah, Kanu and Benyu all at the club at the same time and we can't expect to be that lucky every year. Even after they moved on, we still had the experienced spine of a good National League team: Evans, Reynolds, Oyeleke, Rendell. The first three have moved on, and Rendell was struggling for fitness even before his latest injury - he's got a lot of miles on the clock. We are now in a rebuilding phase.

None of the above factors affecting the team's performance are the chairman's fault. His mistake is that he signed off a budget based on ambitious assumptions. However, due to the other much criticised policy of issuing one year contracts, next year we can adjust and cut our cloth accordingly. (The moaners won't like that either, especially if GW gets a better offer).

It's also troubling that the Trust walked off the board. We don't know why but to my recollection, whenever we bring in a CEO it seems to create problems e.g. Peter Duffy. Our previous CEOs have demonstrated a tendency to make change for change's sake, and to advocate high-risk strategies in the hope of enhancing their own profile. Let's hope Laura Smith turns out different and if not, she is removed.

Mistakes have been made. Does that mean we should throw Shahid Azeem overboard? Not if he shows the ability to take stock and to correct them.

Dr Jim Royle
Posts: 322
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:21 am
Re: Shahid Azeem Out out out!!!

Post by Dr Jim Royle » Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:55 am

The usual business practice when Companies are losing monies are to make redundancies, I should know as got a hat trick in 'em over the years.

Never nice but these things happen.

I'm wondering on the player front if Gary has a few six monthers, in which case can see similar to last season, gone in the new year.

Back room staff, usually last in first out as cost is less.

Hard facts of life I'm afraid.

Dom Sterlings Left Leg
Posts: 61
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:00 pm
Re: Shahid Azeem Out out out!!!

Post by Dom Sterlings Left Leg » Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:44 am

Lets face it the reason we are in this mess is ultimately because we have set a budget on 2450 average. It could be argued no one expected us to be so crap this season and to see such a resulting drop in attendances but to base your budget on an average set when we reached the play offs means in theory we would need to at least reach the play offs again to break even.

Who could predict that job would be harder with salford entering the league and the likes of orient inevitably doing well..... :roll:

Its easy to say no one expected any of this but ask most real shots fans and they would tell you that budgeted average was a huge risk. We can all see it so who came up with this plan? It must have been debated at board level and collectively signed off. Its idiotic and predictably has proven very costly to the clubs health.


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