O/t EU Elections next week

Post Reply
scorp
Posts: 251
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:54 pm
Location: England
Re: O/t EU Elections next week

Post by scorp » Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:28 pm

tonygodfrey wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:54 pm
Sorry Richard can't agree that EU has no role in keeping peace. Greater economic and social integration makes the likelihood of war between European nations less likely. Also the desire of former Soviet block countries such as Poland and Romania, which weren't in NATO, to gain the economic benefits of EU membership, has helped to pull them into the modern world where they are hopefully less of a threat. Being in the EU should also deter them from becoming less democratic in the future and thereby increase their (and therefore Europe's) stability.

Trump's grasp of anything remotely complex is just about nonexistent. Clearly has no clue about the realities of the NHS or why there is an Irish border. We just have to hope that he is beginning to realise that it sometimes pays to listen.
Or the climate. He confuses it with everyday weather he experiences. Thus, if he sees a snowflake, global warming is fake. If there is a hot day locally to him... well, he's stumped on that one, it seems.

James Frazer
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2010 2:25 pm
Location: Alexandra Park
Re: O/t EU Elections next week

Post by James Frazer » Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:06 pm

Upcoming cover of Time magazine https://twitter.com/time/status/1136611 ... 15808?s=21. ColdWar Steve produces some classic work.

Fuggletim
Posts: 81
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:16 pm
Location: Whitehill
Re: O/t EU Elections next week

Post by Fuggletim » Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:44 pm

First of all, can I say I can't wait for the start of the football season, whichever league we be in.

Those who consider that the EU has played a major part in maintaining peace in Europe probably are looking through the "Rose tinted" glasses that are often mentioned on here. I can remember a teenager back in 1975 (not yet old enough to vote) that the line about "Peace in Europe" would somehow be guaranteed if we all voted to remain the EEC. A bold and slightly odd claim for a small ""trading" partnership I thought at the time.

The seeds of WW2 were sown by the 1919 Versailles Treaty which left a German nation broken and totally humiliated, but with an atmosphere that was ripe to allow nationalism to rise, as it did. Most of the rest of Europe chose to ignore this, until it was too late, but at the end of 1945, with Germany defeated again, the rest of Europe really had no stomach for any more internal squabbles, but recognised that a far greater threat to European peace had risen in the East; as Churchill said "an iron curtain has decscended across Europe."

To counter this threat NATO was born which almagated much of previously divided Europe. Into an alliance to counter this threat: a threat which , although changed, is still very much there. Yes the EU may give the impression that by all being together in a "Superstate" we are maintaining peace on the continent, and you can believe it if you want to. I am far more sceptical.

So will there ever be a European war again? Probably not, and certainly not in my lifetime. However history may provide a warning for the future of what can happen when you try to bring different countries and cultures etc together as one.

The Soviet Union almaganated a lot of very different nations together to form a "Superstate" and to a lesser degree the Yugoslav Republic did the same thing. It didn't work out very well ultimately.

Mytshot
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:25 pm
Location: Mytchett
Re: O/t EU Elections next week

Post by Mytshot » Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:08 pm

Fuggletim wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:44 pm
So will there ever be a European war again? Probably not, and certainly not in my lifetime. However history may provide a warning for the future of what can happen when you try to bring different countries and cultures etc together as one.

The Soviet Union almaganated a lot of very different nations together to form a "Superstate" and to a lesser degree the Yugoslav Republic did the same thing. It didn't work out very well ultimately.
I’ve never felt the English culture threatened all the time we’ve been in the EU. I’m not sure why people are so insecure.

Desertshot
Posts: 48
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:25 pm
Re: O/t EU Elections next week

Post by Desertshot » Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:07 pm

The UN the EU and NATO have all played there part in keeping the peace in Europe. It far to simplistic to say that one organisation had had more of a role than any other. They have all played there part in different ways. We need to find a way to cooperate with the rest of the world and create lasting partnerships built on understanding, tolerance and shared values. Thats what the EU endeavours to do. It is totally unthinkable see how two EU member states could end up at war with each other and as far as I am aware this has never happened. It is ludicrous to suggest that the EU has not played it's part in keeping the peace in Europe! The referendum result had far more to do with disillusionment with the UK Government than it did with the EU. Of course there are those on the right of politics who believe the UK would be better off going it alone. Margret Thatcher the darling of the Conservative party will be turning in her grave right now listening to the utter nonsense emitting from her party right now. It's no wonder the country is in a mess when some folk think it's a sensible policy to pursue no deal. The country has seriously given leave to it senses. And on this day of all days we are considering turning our back on those our parents and grandfathers sacrificed so much to liberate. Shame on us.

Fuggletim
Posts: 81
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:16 pm
Location: Whitehill
Re: O/t EU Elections next week

Post by Fuggletim » Fri Jun 07, 2019 12:10 am

75 x years ago is a long time ago, but to me it is sad that some of our friends in Europe seem to give the impression that they don't quite fully grasp now exactly what that sacrifice meant.

My feelings go rather deep on this subject.

Norwich Nick
Posts: 225
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:49 pm
Location: Wymondham, Norfolk
Re: O/t EU Elections next week

Post by Norwich Nick » Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:34 am

steveshot wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 9:56 pm
The Peterborough election coming will be very interesting!
@brexitparty ✅
While it was a narrow defeat for BP, to have taken place in one of the more strongly supporting Leave constituencies can't be brilliant for Mr Farage and his supporters.

steveshot
Posts: 89
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:41 pm
Re: O/t EU Elections next week

Post by steveshot » Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:10 am

That was close not too bad for a newly formed party though, labour majority hugely reigned in.

Norwich Nick
Posts: 225
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:49 pm
Location: Wymondham, Norfolk
Re: O/t EU Elections next week

Post by Norwich Nick » Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:51 am

steveshot wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:10 am
That was close not too bad for a newly formed party though, labour majority hugely reigned in.
Labour actually increased their majority a little, Peterborough has long been a Conservative/Labour marginal - BP took votes from both parties, just significantly more from the Conservatives. In a constituency that voted 61% Leave, for BP to poll 29% on a lowish turnout is far from an overwhelming endorsement IMO

Desertshot
Posts: 48
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:25 pm
Re: O/t EU Elections next week

Post by Desertshot » Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:46 am

steveshot wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:10 am
That was close not too bad for a newly formed party though, labour majority hugely reigned in.
I think you'll find that mr farage and his motly crew are mighty dissapointed as a win would have put some more wind in the sails of the BP. Most folk fully expected them to win and handsomely. NF still hasnt won a parlimenty seat. Maybe the bp should write a manifesto. But that would mean engaging in our representative parliamentary democracy and farage doesnt like that does he. Should have stood himself.

tonygodfrey
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:28 pm
Re: O/t EU Elections next week

Post by tonygodfrey » Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:50 am

Clearly the EU is unpopular with some but to see it compared (seriously?) to the Soviet Union is somewhat surprising.

FuggleT, whenever travelling in Europe personally have never had any doubt that most Europeans completely understand the sacrifices made by those fighting for the Allies in both world wars. You only have to visit Ypres, for example, to be greatly moved. Would be interested to know where and how you get a different impression?

Wokingham Shot
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:34 pm
Re: O/t EU Elections next week

Post by Wokingham Shot » Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:24 am

Farage can't stand as he is an MEP. He would rather go and make a fool of himself in Brussels

Dom Sterlings Left Leg
Posts: 151
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:00 pm
Re: O/t EU Elections next week

Post by Dom Sterlings Left Leg » Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:17 am

Norwich Nick wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:51 am
steveshot wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:10 am
That was close not too bad for a newly formed party though, labour majority hugely reigned in.
Labour actually increased their majority a little, Peterborough has long been a Conservative/Labour marginal - BP took votes from both parties, just significantly more from the Conservatives. In a constituency that voted 61% Leave, for BP to poll 29% on a lowish turnout is far from an overwhelming endorsement IMO
These days when you come second you win.

If May hadnt announced she was stepping down the con vote would have collapsed and the BP would have won. Con votes of Peterborough obviously feel the next PM might deliver brexit and happy to stick with it.

I find it amazing that the people of peterborough have voted in another labour MP with questionable views after the last criminal that was MP there but they say you get the politicians you deserve.

Norwich Nick
Posts: 225
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:49 pm
Location: Wymondham, Norfolk
Re: O/t EU Elections next week

Post by Norwich Nick » Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:33 am

Dom Sterlings Left Leg wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:17 am
I find it amazing that the people of peterborough have voted in another labour MP with questionable views after the last criminal that was MP there
Indeed, which makes it all the more remarkable they actually won

Cph.shots
Posts: 172
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 8:44 pm
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Re: O/t EU Elections next week

Post by Cph.shots » Fri Jun 07, 2019 12:14 pm

Wokingham Shot wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:24 am
Farage can't stand as he is an MEP. He would rather go and make a fool of himself in Brussels
He could resign as an MEP but that would probably mean less money and actually being acountable in the UK.


Post Reply