Acceptable league position

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shotshammo
Posts: 182
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:44 am
Re: Acceptable league position

Post by shotshammo » Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:27 am

Spot on ganesh.

Dr Jim Royle
Posts: 406
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:21 am
Re: Acceptable league position

Post by Dr Jim Royle » Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:53 am

If the aim of the Club is not to finish at least within the Play Off's something is fundamentally wrong with everything. There is no such thing as "playing for safety" or setting your goal as let us just stay up, that is the most bonkers gamble known to football.

After seeing who we employed as our Manager, you could say it near knocked all my expectations to zero. Based on a few wins at an end of a season at Braintree when bonkers results are the norm and very little experience of managing and contacts ........ can only think the BOD was employing a Cowley Clone, which he certainly isn't.

Then I saw the players we was signing .............that sealed the deal for me, my expectation was, and still is, relegation.

I was told throughout the summer, the club was confident Gateshead would be hit hard, so I do not for one minute buy into the baloney of not knowing which division we'd be in.

And I also do not buy into our budget the reason for situation, at first fans forum it was said our budget would be a competitive one in Conf South but no the best, and a OK one for the National but outside top twelve.

Accepting any poor performance or league finish is pure stupidness and if that is what we are saying about our Club .......... god forbid.

lanternhall
Posts: 1027
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:37 am
Re: Acceptable league position

Post by lanternhall » Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:09 am

Lazio wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:01 pm
If your not aiming to win the league or at least get promoted something is badly wrong.
We have disagreements on here but I am in total agreement with you on your post.

Oliver11
Posts: 380
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2017 7:22 pm
Re: Acceptable league position

Post by Oliver11 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:42 am

Dr Jim Royle wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:53 am
If the aim of the Club is not to finish at least within the Play Off's something is fundamentally wrong with everything. There is no such thing as "playing for safety" or setting your goal as let us just stay up, that is the most bonkers gamble known to football.

After seeing who we employed as our Manager, you could say it near knocked all my expectations to zero. Based on a few wins at an end of a season at Braintree when bonkers results are the norm and very little experience of managing and contacts ........ can only think the BOD was employing a Cowley Clone, which he certainly isn't.

Then I saw the players we was signing .............that sealed the deal for me, my expectation was, and still is, relegation.

I was told throughout the summer, the club was confident Gateshead would be hit hard, so I do not for one minute buy into the baloney of not knowing which division we'd be in.

And I also do not buy into our budget the reason for situation, at first fans forum it was said our budget would be a competitive one in Conf South but no the best, and a OK one for the National but outside top twelve.

Accepting any poor performance or league finish is pure stupidness and if that is what we are saying about our Club .......... god forbid.

Every club / fan starts the season with hope of winning the league or at least making the playoffs but is that realistic after last season?

Saying that you expect a team that got relegated last season with terrible performances / unwanted records to all of a sudden to be contending to win the league or make the playoffs - that surely is pure stupidness!

The reprieve was most welcome but came with drawbacks, mainly signing the leftovers that the rest didn't want as you can guarantee the best ones were sorted by June. Then having to start a squad from virtually scratch. Yes some haven't worked out but some have and certainly better than his predecessor in this department, who once McCarthy left Ipswich was left high and dry.

Everyone speculates on our budget but is certain to be no better than a mid table one at best so isn't it acceptable that finishing around that position a fair outcome?

The appointment of Danny surprised a few but given our circumstances and his late arrival in joining the club isn't doing that bad.

Maybe some fans take it for granted that we should always be in the playoffs or now have little patience after Waddock's final 14 months in charge which Danny has to unfairly endure.

One thing that doesn't wash or baloney as you put it that he's just a nice guy with plastic coaching certificates. What would you prefer, someone who isn't a nice guy with no coaching certificates - the guy can't win!

If we would've been offered 13th place or even 20th place in May most would've taken that without hestitation.

Bathgateshots
Posts: 99
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:43 am
Re: Acceptable league position

Post by Bathgateshots » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:00 am

Acceptable is a word I wouldn't use, for me it's more of a resignation of our situation. If we had gone down last season, it may have been a shot in the arm we needed, a side in the Conference South winning most of it's games would have certainly got the fans back on side and possibly increased attendances. Given the circumstances, the club's overall ambition should be to finish as high as possible and ultimately to emulate a side like Burton Albion and aim for the Championship as our dream. I've always thought with our catchment area and potential support when doing well that we could possibly sustain League One football, if Rochdale, Accrington, Fleetwood (yes, with money), Wycombe etc can do it then there is no reason why we can't.

Right now, that seems a million miles away but if we had say 5-6 Mark Butler's or Graham Brookland's as the BOD then things would be different. I look at the model adopted by my Scottish club Motherwell and the CEO Alan Burrows (a lifelong fan who started doing the webpage and IT at the club) - a fan owned club who do huge work in the community and are now debt free with a fantastic academy. Ex Shot Martin Foyle was a long time head scout for the club. The population is more or less the same as Aldershot at around 34,000 but core home support is consistent at around 4,000 with another 2-4,000 floating fans for bigger occasions. This is the sort of model the Shots should looking to focus on long term.

Dr Jim Royle
Posts: 406
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:21 am
Re: Acceptable league position

Post by Dr Jim Royle » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:07 am

One thing that doesn't wash or baloney as you put it that he's just a nice guy with plastic coaching certificates. What would you prefer, someone who isn't a nice guy with no coaching certificates - the guy can't win!
It's our team that can't win (enough).

No idea where you are coming from Oliver, Teams, Managers and Players are judged on their on field performances, badges, caps, fashion clothes, media chats etc etc etc do not win you points. Nice Guys do not always make the best Managers either.

So in essence, I want a Manager who can build a team than can compete, not one constantly looking over their shoulder to fail. A Manager that can gives us a bit of home form. And a Manager who doesn't keep wanting to use the "we" in reasons of failure but one that will say "I" have not done enough either.

So if it was a straight choice of Attila The Hun or Danny as Manager but Attila will deliver more of what I'm seeking, then he gets my vote.

If folk want Nice Guy and happy to go along with so much inconsistency, poor results and abysmal home form and they have the public vote, then fine I'm in the minority and have to continue to support. But it is a drain on my love for Shots for sure.

Oliver11
Posts: 380
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2017 7:22 pm
Re: Acceptable league position

Post by Oliver11 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:15 am

Dr Jim Royle wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:07 am
One thing that doesn't wash or baloney as you put it that he's just a nice guy with plastic coaching certificates. What would you prefer, someone who isn't a nice guy with no coaching certificates - the guy can't win!
It's our team that can't win (enough).

No idea where you are coming from Oliver, Teams, Managers and Players are judged on their on field performances, badges, caps, fashion clothes, media chats etc etc etc do not win you points. Nice Guys do not always make the best Managers either.

So in essence, I want a Manager who can build a team than can compete, not one constantly looking over their shoulder to fail. A Manager that can gives us a bit of home form. And a Manager who doesn't keep wanting to use the "we" in reasons of failure but one that will say "I" have not done enough either.

So if it was a straight choice of Attila The Hun or Danny as Manager but Attila will deliver more of what I'm seeking, then he gets my vote.

If folk want Nice Guy and happy to go along with so much inconsistency, poor results and abysmal home form and they have the public vote, then fine I'm in the minority and have to continue to support. But it is a drain on my love for Shots for sure.
The point I'm making is why bring the point up of "he's just a nice guy" or "coaching certificates mean nothing" - Danny has never said or mentioned that once, only one person has countless times!

The only thing I agree with you on at the moment is that it's irrelevant and the points on the board important.

As a well known manager once said "judge us at the end of the season"..... although I rather prefer judge around Xmas before its too late in some situations.

lanternhall
Posts: 1027
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:37 am
Re: Acceptable league position

Post by lanternhall » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:29 am

Oliver11 wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:42 am
Dr Jim Royle wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:53 am
If the aim of the Club is not to finish at least within the Play Off's something is fundamentally wrong with everything. There is no such thing as "playing for safety" or setting your goal as let us just stay up, that is the most bonkers gamble known to football.

After seeing who we employed as our Manager, you could say it near knocked all my expectations to zero. Based on a few wins at an end of a season at Braintree when bonkers results are the norm and very little experience of managing and contacts ........ can only think the BOD was employing a Cowley Clone, which he certainly isn't.

Then I saw the players we was signing .............that sealed the deal for me, my expectation was, and still is, relegation.

I was told throughout the summer, the club was confident Gateshead would be hit hard, so I do not for one minute buy into the baloney of not knowing which division we'd be in.

And I also do not buy into our budget the reason for situation, at first fans forum it was said our budget would be a competitive one in Conf South but no the best, and a OK one for the National but outside top twelve.

Accepting any poor performance or league finish is pure stupidness and if that is what we are saying about our Club .......... god forbid.

Every club / fan starts the season with hope of winning the league or at least making the playoffs but is that realistic after last season?

Saying that you expect a team that got relegated last season with terrible performances / unwanted records to all of a sudden to be contending to win the league or make the playoffs - that surely is pure stupidness!

The reprieve was most welcome but came with drawbacks, mainly signing the leftovers that the rest didn't want as you can guarantee the best ones were sorted by June. Then having to start a squad from virtually scratch. Yes some haven't worked out but some have and certainly better than his predecessor in this department, who once McCarthy left Ipswich was left high and dry.

Everyone speculates on our budget but is certain to be no better than a mid table one at best so isn't it acceptable that finishing around that position a fair outcome?

The appointment of Danny surprised a few but given our circumstances and his late arrival in joining the club isn't doing that bad.

Maybe some fans take it for granted that we should always be in the playoffs or now have little patience after Waddock's final 14 months in charge which Danny has to unfairly endure.

One thing that doesn't wash or baloney as you put it that he's just a nice guy with plastic coaching certificates. What would you prefer, someone who isn't a nice guy with no coaching certificates - the guy can't win!

If we would've been offered 13th place or even 20th place in May most would've taken that without hestitation.

The thing that I don't understand in your posts Oliver is that you are totally right about Waddock. Once Mcarthy went and Ipswich players dried up, he was finished.

But Danny is no better. Yes he had to build a new squad so he is on a winner straight away. Can start from scratch and sign his players. Unfortunately he didn't build a very good one. He doesn't seem to have the managerial skills to motivate the players. Surely a manager lives or dies by his decisions. Signings, team selection, performance and results.

I have posted on here many times that when interviewed he seems a really nice guy. Unfortunately that is not enough.

I have been supporting shots for nearly 50 years. Are now telling me that the height of our ambition is to not get relegated from the National League?

Ancient Shot
Posts: 656
Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:30 pm
Re: Acceptable league position

Post by Ancient Shot » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:47 am

How many of those 50 years was our ambition not to have to apply for re-election to the football league?

lanternhall
Posts: 1027
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:37 am
Re: Acceptable league position

Post by lanternhall » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:55 am

Ancient Shot wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:47 am
How many of those 50 years was our ambition not to have to apply for re-election to the football league?
Not many in my day. We were usually going for promotion. It was only at the end when we went bust.

Preston Shot
Posts: 376
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:23 am
Re: Acceptable league position

Post by Preston Shot » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:19 am

I'll guarantee we will have more points than last season and that will be enough to finish in the bottom third.
A few on here need to realise we are just a middle of the road National league team making ends meet.

Ancient Shot
Posts: 656
Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:30 pm
Re: Acceptable league position

Post by Ancient Shot » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:26 am

lanternhall wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:55 am
Ancient Shot wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:47 am
How many of those 50 years was our ambition not to have to apply for re-election to the football league?
Not many in my day. We were usually going for promotion. It was only at the end when we went bust.
You have a very selective memory :wink:

lanternhall
Posts: 1027
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:37 am
Re: Acceptable league position

Post by lanternhall » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:30 am

Ancient Shot wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:26 am
lanternhall wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:55 am
Ancient Shot wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:47 am
How many of those 50 years was our ambition not to have to apply for re-election to the football league?
Not many in my day. We were usually going for promotion. It was only at the end when we went bust.
You have a very selective memory :wink:
I don't think so. Explain.

Ancient Shot
Posts: 656
Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:30 pm
Re: Acceptable league position

Post by Ancient Shot » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:53 am


In Sight of Victory Shot
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2008 10:38 am
Re: Acceptable league position

Post by In Sight of Victory Shot » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:59 am

According to Wikipedia-: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Re-elec ... ll_League)#

During the 3rd Division North and South 1920-57, Aldershot applied for re-election just twice. Interestingly, Norwich City 4 times, Crystal Palace 3 times.

4th Division era 1958-86, we applied for re-election only once. Hartlepool Utd 11 times! And each time they were successful.


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