Acceptable league position

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TopShot
Posts: 251
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:32 pm
Re: Acceptable league position

Post by TopShot » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:13 am

There are some really good points in this thread.

Last season we failed so badly.

From the outside looking in I believe this was a mixture of things;

Some good players left to go onto better things at the end of the previous season and we had to fill gaps with new players so we were lacking structure and a relationship to the side.

Some of those players bought in were simply not good enough. - quantity over quality this time around, however all you need is one cheap hidden gem.

In my view the management seemed to give up. Was this due to lack of backing from up top, disbelief in themselves, disbelief in the players, or a mixture of everything or something else?

After that season we found ourselves in a situation where, as it stood, we were relegated.

Fortunately for us we stayed up, however, I would assume that instead of throwing money at the problem, getting a well experienced manager with lots of contacts and over spending on players, things are being done differently and quite rightly too.

We have instead by the look of things taken a step back to reflect and identify what went wrong and how to fix things. I have said before that, although a way off, an income for the club outside of football with the development is a major game changer.

No disrespect to Danny but they have gone for an inexperienced manager, maybe in the hopes of finding a diamond in the rough?

Cutting back on the playing budget to get a team of players to play each match with a few subs and hoping that we can remain in the league and try and recoup a bit of lost money.

DS I believe needs time, although time is something that is in very short supply of at a football club.

Yes he has had almost half a season already but we don't know all of the facts behind everything and as someone who is not going to moan and rant about things DS is an easy target.

Maybe the target for this year is to stay in the league with a manageable budget?

I for one am interested in the short, medium and long term plans which will be identified at the forum.

At the moment everything else is merely speculation.

lanternhall
Posts: 1027
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:37 am
Re: Acceptable league position

Post by lanternhall » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:34 am

Ancient Shot wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:53 am
http://www.fchd.info/ALDERSHO.HTM
I started to support shots in 1970. It is only in the four years before we went bust that we seeked re_election. So where is your argument?

Ancient Shot
Posts: 656
Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:30 pm
Re: Acceptable league position

Post by Ancient Shot » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:49 am

I said our ambition was to avoid it

1970-71 13/24
1971-72 17/24
1972-73 4/24

1976-77 17/24
1977-78 5/24
1978-79 5/24
1979-80 10/24
1980-81 6/24
1981-82 16/24
1982-83 18/24
1983-84 5/24
1984-85 13/24
1985-86 16/24
1986-87 6/24

1989-90 22/24
1990-91 23/24

So 9 seasons in the lower half of Division 4 and 7 in the top half

lanternhall
Posts: 1027
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:37 am
Re: Acceptable league position

Post by lanternhall » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:57 am

Ancient Shot wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:49 am
I said our ambition was to avoid it

1970-71 13/24
1971-72 17/24
1972-73 4/24

1976-77 17/24
1977-78 5/24
1978-79 5/24
1979-80 10/24
1980-81 6/24
1981-82 16/24
1982-83 18/24
1983-84 5/24
1984-85 13/24
1985-86 16/24
1986-87 6/24

1989-90 22/24
1990-91 23/24

So 9 seasons in the lower half of Division 4 and 7 in the top half
Ok Ancient you make your point. I still don't accept that the height of our ambition is to avoid relegation from the National League.

Dr Jim Royle
Posts: 406
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:21 am
Re: Acceptable league position

Post by Dr Jim Royle » Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:11 pm

Well guess my support started around the 1968 period, becoming a regular 1969 onwards.

The early years of my tenure saw us a decent top half team, no such thing as play off's in those days but we'd have been in or around it by todays standards.

The third division was a short but fun period.

And I guess slowly but surely after the return to the old fourth, we never really got back our mojo.

But for the most part of those League days our home form was pretty decent.

Supporting the Shots has always been a roller coaster ride, one with very few highs, but plenty of dips. Trouble is at the moment our dip is not showing any signs of a brighter higher ride, let alone reaching a peak of excitement.

Excitement, a great word and one that seems a world away now.

Football is a back burner now, watching The Shots is about meeting up with some old and newer friends and talking cr*p mostly, football talk is now almost a banned subject, in fact it may impose a Brexit Type Fine soon for those who dare talk football on a matchday. And that is something I'm finding really sad, the life is being squeezed out of matchdays. If the BOD take any notice of a fan like me, then maybe for once they might sit back and look at what a lot of folk now see the Club. They may have a vision eager to share, but they are blind on so many things, and the darkness they fail to lighten is what makes any Club tick, and that is the action on show come matchday.

Yesterday was for me yet another low point of a dip .... Our Manager berates certain players for not being fit to wear the shirt, if that is the case pack their kit bags and tell them they are not wanted and take a long, long look at yourself. If your going to point the finger of blame then name and shame. My finger is pointing at Danny, another case of talk and no action. Really had enough, does nobody have the balls these days to say it as it is?

DH
Posts: 69
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 8:18 pm
Re: Acceptable league position

Post by DH » Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:36 pm

Dr Jim Royle wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:11 pm
Well guess my support started around the 1968 period, becoming a regular 1969 onwards.

The early years of my tenure saw us a decent top half team, no such thing as play off's in those days but we'd have been in or around it by todays standards.

The third division was a short but fun period.

And I guess slowly but surely after the return to the old fourth, we never really got back our mojo.

But for the most part of those League days our home form was pretty decent.

Supporting the Shots has always been a roller coaster ride, one with very few highs, but plenty of dips. Trouble is at the moment our dip is not showing any signs of a brighter higher ride, let alone reaching a peak of excitement.

Excitement, a great word and one that seems a world away now.

Football is a back burner now, watching The Shots is about meeting up with some old and newer friends and talking cr*p mostly, football talk is now almost a banned subject, in fact it may impose a Brexit Type Fine soon for those who dare talk football on a matchday. And that is something I'm finding really sad, the life is being squeezed out of matchdays. If the BOD take any notice of a fan like me, then maybe for once they might sit back and look at what a lot of folk now see the Club. They may have a vision eager to share, but they are blind on so many things, and the darkness they fail to lighten is what makes any Club tick, and that is the action on show come matchday.

Yesterday was for me yet another low point of a dip .... Our Manager berates certain players for not being fit to wear the shirt, if that is the case pack their kit bags and tell them they are not wanted and take a long, long look at yourself. If your going to point the finger of blame then name and shame. My finger is pointing at Danny, another case of talk and no action. Really had enough, does nobody have the balls these days to say it as it is?
So you're suggesting that the very next morning after a result you're disappointed with you expect our manager to have dispensed with those players who didn't perform? I think even more than us mere mortal employees, footballers have contracts that would not allow that to happen. A mutual termination, including no doubt some sort of pay-off, would probably need to be negotiated. And where does the money for that pay-off come from? And then how do we find the money to replace said players?

Disappointed as we all are I'm sure, realism sometimes come way behind some peoples expectations.

Dr Jim Royle
Posts: 406
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:21 am
Re: Acceptable league position

Post by Dr Jim Royle » Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:27 pm

So you're suggesting that the very next morning after a result you're disappointed with you expect our manager to have dispensed with those players who didn't perform?
To start with the Managers exact words were "players not fit to wear the shirt" ...... I'd say he was as disappointed as me , no?

Also if I told one of my staff your not fit to do the job, exactly what would you expect me to do next? Continue to accept they are not up to it? Get real, people who fail in their jobs get moved on in EVERY aspect of working life, not just football.

Fair play to anyone who still supports our Manager, my view is not important nor is it shared by all. But don't just dismiss others views without thought to how they have built up their opinion.

I've yet to listen to the next Eastbank Weekly but it seems he has gone from bigging up the Hants Cup to now dismissing as only giving 1st team fringe players pitch time. He needs to make his mind up as it seems to me he limps from one poor excuse to another. How about telling folk, "I cocked up with that strategy, maybe time to transfer list those players not fit to wear our shirt ............ CRAZY, but sooooooo many football managers manage to say it at other clubs.

AberdeenShots
Posts: 179
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:25 pm
Re: Acceptable league position

Post by AberdeenShots » Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:30 pm

If Danny keeps us up then he’s done a good job.
I said that in July, I say it again now.
Consolidate next season and eye mid-table.

If you want to get stuck in for me not having playoff ambitions then fill your boots.

We have a decent manager but fans with expectations bordering on utter delusion, IMVHO.

steveshot
Posts: 222
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:41 pm
Re: Acceptable league position

Post by steveshot » Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:33 pm

We have a decent manager! Can I ask how you worked that one out Aberdeen?

AberdeenShots
Posts: 179
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:25 pm
Re: Acceptable league position

Post by AberdeenShots » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:27 pm

steveshot wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:33 pm
We have a decent manager! Can I ask how you worked that one out Aberdeen?
How do you know Danny isn’t overachieving?

Who would you say is a decent manager at this level and where would we be in the league if he had taken over instead of Danny?

Genuine questions mate.

DH
Posts: 69
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 8:18 pm
Re: Acceptable league position

Post by DH » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:38 pm

Dr Jim Royle wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:27 pm
So you're suggesting that the very next morning after a result you're disappointed with you expect our manager to have dispensed with those players who didn't perform?
To start with the Managers exact words were "players not fit to wear the shirt" ...... I'd say he was as disappointed as me , no?

Also if I told one of my staff your not fit to do the job, exactly what would you expect me to do next? Continue to accept they are not up to it? Get real, people who fail in their jobs get moved on in EVERY aspect of working life, not just football.

Fair play to anyone who still supports our Manager, my view is not important nor is it shared by all. But don't just dismiss others views without thought to how they have built up their opinion.

I've yet to listen to the next Eastbank Weekly but it seems he has gone from bigging up the Hants Cup to now dismissing as only giving 1st team fringe players pitch time. He needs to make his mind up as it seems to me he limps from one poor excuse to another. How about telling folk, "I cocked up with that strategy, maybe time to transfer list those players not fit to wear our shirt ............ CRAZY, but sooooooo many football managers manage to say it at other clubs.
Firstly you are correct in that people get moved on from jobs all the time. But it is only easy if they have worked for a company for less than two years as they have no employee rights. After that, there are legal and financial implications to getting rid of staff and in this day and age, not being good enough at the job isn’t on its own a good enough reason to get rid of someone bizarre as that may sound.

Employers have to try and improve them, offer them extra training, time to correct errors maybe even find them another role more suitable to their ability. How would that work in football? Hey player X you’re a rubbish forward, how about we try you in defence? Wouldn’t work would it?

Given that we only ever give out one year contracts, the two year legal requirement doesn’t apply. So players or their agents will almost certainly insist on payout clauses in the event of early termination. Otherwise no doubt we and all other clubs would chop and change underperforming players all the time. The only reason they don’t do that has to be the potential financial penalty.

At no point did I say I supported the manager. Just offered some potential reasons why there hadn’t been a mass exodus of players on Wednesday morning.

And don’t just dismiss others musings without some thought as to how they might have come to those conclusions!

steveshot
Posts: 222
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:41 pm
Re: Acceptable league position

Post by steveshot » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:46 pm

I don’t know who the other applicants were but after a third of the season gone I would hope we weren’t flirting with the drop.

Anon E Mouse
Posts: 1490
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 1:29 pm
Re: Acceptable league position

Post by Anon E Mouse » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:00 pm

DH wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:38 pm
Dr Jim Royle wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:27 pm
So you're suggesting that the very next morning after a result you're disappointed with you expect our manager to have dispensed with those players who didn't perform?
To start with the Managers exact words were "players not fit to wear the shirt" ...... I'd say he was as disappointed as me , no?

Also if I told one of my staff your not fit to do the job, exactly what would you expect me to do next? Continue to accept they are not up to it? Get real, people who fail in their jobs get moved on in EVERY aspect of working life, not just football.

Fair play to anyone who still supports our Manager, my view is not important nor is it shared by all. But don't just dismiss others views without thought to how they have built up their opinion.

I've yet to listen to the next Eastbank Weekly but it seems he has gone from bigging up the Hants Cup to now dismissing as only giving 1st team fringe players pitch time. He needs to make his mind up as it seems to me he limps from one poor excuse to another. How about telling folk, "I cocked up with that strategy, maybe time to transfer list those players not fit to wear our shirt ............ CRAZY, but sooooooo many football managers manage to say it at other clubs.

Employers have to try and improve them, offer them extra training, time to correct errors maybe even find them another role more suitable to their ability. How would that work in football? Hey player X you’re a rubbish forward, how about we try you in defence? Wouldn’t work would it?

Might do for Mullings. ....just saying.

Preston Shot
Posts: 376
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:23 am
Re: Acceptable league position

Post by Preston Shot » Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:54 am

If we continue with our current 1.1 points per game we will end up on 51 points.
Going on last seasons table we would finish 5th bottom .....just

What this side has lacked is putting together a 4/5 game unbeaten run, we only seem to manage no more than 2 games.

I also do hope that Danny doesn't keep playing this defensive formation away from home especially against lower to mid table sides.

Cph.shots
Posts: 318
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 8:44 pm
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Re: Acceptable league position

Post by Cph.shots » Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:01 am

Preston Shot wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:54 am
If we continue with our current 1.1 points per game we will end up on 51 points.
Going on last seasons table we would finish 5th bottom .....just

What this side has lacked is putting together a 4/5 game unbeaten run, we only seem to manage no more than 2 games.

I also do hope that Danny doesn't keep playing this defensive formation away from home especially against lower to mid table sides.
Looking at the league table, there is quite a bit of inconsistancey about. AS PS says, a half decent run would put us around mid table but of course, things could also get even worse. I'll bo over for my first game this season against Chesterfield and I'm usually lucky with good results.


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