Hillsborough

Giles
Posts: 176
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 12:32 pm
Location: Farncombe
Re: Hillsborough

Post by Giles » Fri Nov 29, 2019 4:21 pm

Yup I agree with the Duckenfield verdict, I imagine living with his decisions which he admitted in earlier interviews have more than taken their toll, I do hope though that the massive cover up & altering/destroying of statements & evidence afterwards comes home to roost on those that ordered it. I think thats next?

collieboy
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:00 pm
Re: Hillsborough

Post by collieboy » Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:50 pm

Yes I remember both events, as though they were yesterday, was coming home from Shots home game and the dreadful news came over the radio, of the tragedy unfolding it moved me to tears at the time. After watching video footage of the fans trying to get in, it seemed to me that if the gate hadn't been opened a disaster would of occurred outside, but the end result was simply a catastrophe, with so many lives being lost. But to blame one person was wrong, mitigating circumstances played there part, the implementation of fences, plus Liverpool's own fans who surged through the tunnel, I'm sure there's more but will we ever know, And lets not forget the Heysel stadium tragedy 39 victims.
So to Exeter, quite a scary event, so many fans trying to get in 1 turnstile, when I got on the terrace which was probably 4 fifths full, fans still pouring in, I was eventually shoe horned to the front, and thoughts of Hillsborough resurfaced, so I got my young son over the wall and followed, pulling my mate and his son over, game had started so screamed at the ref to stop the game because of the congestion on the terrace, but this fell on deaf ears, so we made our way to the grandstand. Once again you think back to the poor souls that lost there lives that fateful day, as it could so easily of been us.

Trouts
Posts: 115
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:44 pm
Re: Hillsborough

Post by Trouts » Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:14 pm

the police where there to police. they failed.

Lazio
Posts: 476
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:42 pm
Re: Hillsborough

Post by Lazio » Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:27 pm

Trouts wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:14 pm
the police where there to police. they failed.
That's that then simple. Football fans causing havoc for decades had nothing to do with it, many of us from those times carry some responsibility.

Localshot
Posts: 78
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:31 am
Re: Hillsborough

Post by Localshot » Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:42 pm

Trouts wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:14 pm
the police where there to police. they failed.
Sorry Trouts but the police should never ever be needed to police people. Everyone should ,in an ideal world, police themselves.
When I see them policing marches etc it gets my goat. They have better things to do with their time rather than looking after silly idiots.

Jonty1
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:21 am
Re: Hillsborough

Post by Jonty1 » Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:55 am

Lazio wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 5:31 pm
Hope the witch hunt is over now.
Sorry don't think it’s a witch hunt as such but somebody needs to held accountable for these tragedies and not one person will hold their hands up as a lady said on Jeremy vine show if mr duckenfield had held his hand up & said yes I got it wrong they might have accepted it but as he was matchday commander the buck stops with him

James Frazer
Posts: 98
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2010 2:25 pm
Location: Alexandra Park
Re: Hillsborough

Post by James Frazer » Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:54 am

Wanting someone to blame is understandable. However, it is rarely that simple. To me, it seems a little like trying to blame the Fire Brigade commander for all of the lives lost at Grenfell. The senior office on site is an easy target whereas they are rarely responsible for the causes behind the incident.

AberdeenShots
Posts: 203
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:25 pm
Re: Hillsborough

Post by AberdeenShots » Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:30 am

Is the world’s greatest ever football manager too far off the mark here?

https://youtu.be/j9CC6_MLJ_Y

Shot By Both Sides
Posts: 1018
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:11 pm
Contact:
Re: Hillsborough

Post by Shot By Both Sides » Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:34 am

AberdeenShots wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:30 am
Is the world’s greatest ever football manager too far off the mark here?

https://youtu.be/j9CC6_MLJ_Y
I am glad you think the same.

I was once at Plough Lane and had gone with friends, (Forest fans) to watch them and was allowed onto the team coach before the game.

He was on there, sat in that green jersey.

I'd bought a programme and handed it to him, trying to think of something to say.

"I've come all the way from Weymouth for this" was all of I could think of.

Never even looked at me or answered, just signed the back of the programme and handed it back.

Pure class.

tonygodfrey
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:28 pm
Re: Hillsborough

Post by tonygodfrey » Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:01 pm

Localshot wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:42 pm
Trouts wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:14 pm
the police where there to police. they failed.
Sorry Trouts but the police should never ever be needed to police people. Everyone should ,in an ideal world, police themselves.
When I see them policing marches etc it gets my goat. They have better things to do with their time rather than looking after silly idiots.
Unfortunately Local, the very same thing could be said about football and some of the people who say they follow it.

Localshot
Posts: 78
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:31 am
Re: Hillsborough

Post by Localshot » Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:08 pm

Totally agree and I should have included football in my comment. Tribalism has a lot to answer for.

Trouts
Posts: 115
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:44 pm
Re: Hillsborough

Post by Trouts » Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:51 pm

Localshot wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:42 pm
Trouts wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:14 pm
the police where there to police. they failed.
Sorry Trouts but the police should never ever be needed to police people. Everyone should ,in an ideal world, police themselves.
When I see them policing marches etc it gets my goat. They have better things to do with their time rather than looking after silly idiots.
and yet crowd control is needed at every major event that takes place.
as you say, the world is far from ideal.

whether they should be needed or not, they were there to police. they failed.
- they weren't just there to arrest the 'silly idiots' they were there to protect other people from those 'silly idiots'. they failed.
admittedly, they weren't the only ones. but nonetheless, they (and I wouldn't just blame Dukenfield) didn't do the job they were there to do.

Giles
Posts: 176
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 12:32 pm
Location: Farncombe
Re: Hillsborough

Post by Giles » Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:58 pm

It really irks me people keep saying about the thousands of ticketless Liverpool fans rushing through the tunnel, the fact is the tunnel they were herded through led to the already packed pens when others remained empty, that was the main decision that led to the crush & killed 96 people.

Dom Sterlings Left Leg
Posts: 310
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:00 pm
Re: Hillsborough

Post by Dom Sterlings Left Leg » Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:03 pm

Trouts wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:51 pm
Localshot wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:42 pm
Trouts wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:14 pm
the police where there to police. they failed.
Sorry Trouts but the police should never ever be needed to police people. Everyone should ,in an ideal world, police themselves.
When I see them policing marches etc it gets my goat. They have better things to do with their time rather than looking after silly idiots.
and yet crowd control is needed at every major event that takes place.
as you say, the world is far from ideal.

whether they should be needed or not, they were there to police. they failed.
- they weren't just there to arrest the 'silly idiots' they were there to protect other people from those 'silly idiots'. they failed.
admittedly, they weren't the only ones. but nonetheless, they (and I wouldn't just blame Dukenfield) didn't do the job they were there to do.
Maybe they didnt but did they have adequate experiance / training to deal with such a situation?

Richard Petty
Posts: 965
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:12 pm
Location: Farnborough
Re: Hillsborough

Post by Richard Petty » Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:26 am

Dom Sterlings Left Leg wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:03 pm
Trouts wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:51 pm
Localshot wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:42 pm


Sorry Trouts but the police should never ever be needed to police people. Everyone should ,in an ideal world, police themselves.
When I see them policing marches etc it gets my goat. They have better things to do with their time rather than looking after silly idiots.
and yet crowd control is needed at every major event that takes place.
as you say, the world is far from ideal.

whether they should be needed or not, they were there to police. they failed.
- they weren't just there to arrest the 'silly idiots' they were there to protect other people from those 'silly idiots'. they failed.
admittedly, they weren't the only ones. but nonetheless, they (and I wouldn't just blame Dukenfield) didn't do the job they were there to do.
Maybe they didnt but did they have adequate experiance / training to deal with such a situation?

Based on the level of training and experience of now (2019) then the answer would be no, but although experience may have been a bit lightI think they certainly had the training based on knowledge and practices applicable at that time (1989). The problem was that as we now know the training was flawed. The lessons learned from Hillsborough and other events not just in the UK but around the world since have made huge changes in the way events are managed and policed. (Hope that makes sense)

In 2011 I went and completed a safety training in Crowd Dynamics which was incredibly scientific and very enlightening, it was also amazingly accurate and even watching our supporters after that training I could see how it was working and some experiments that we carried out without any supporters being aware we were doing it caused reactions exactly as the training said it would. Such knowledge and techniques did not exist in the same way in 1989, had they done so then things would most likely have been very different at Hillsborough.
Last edited by Richard Petty on Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.


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