Taking The Knee

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lanternhall
Posts: 1080
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:37 am
Re: Taking The Knee

Post by lanternhall » Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:27 pm

Marcus ex W.Midlands Shot wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:18 am
I would say many of the troublemakers at protests are anarchists and don't really have a position on the political left / right divide. The slightly shady figures who seem to be important in BLM are left-wingers in that they revere the Bolsheviks and would hold to the basic principle that the Russian Revolution was right and what came after it was wrong.

These types become central to protest movements because they are good at protesting. Due to their influence, in quite short time, a popular central idea (e.g. that black people are treated worse by the police and this should change) becomes mixed in with all sorts of other radical political demands and so begins a gradual decline into irrelevance. This happened with the Stop the War movement which is still going in some form and is now stuffed with horribly toxic people. But that doesn't mean that it was wrong to protest against the war in Iraq.

I have worked in three other countries already. Based on my experiences I will firmly defend the right to protest because the development of a nation is stunted if opposing views cannot be heard, and corruption is much more prevalent when there is no opportunity to make accusations (even if they can't be proved). I take the point about the damage to property but the most memorable protests will have an element of theatre and at the end of the day you can't kill or drown a statue.

Lanternhall and Charles D, keep going. Arguments are good. And at the end of the day we are all on the right side of history, because we're not Reading fans.
Another excellent post. I disagree with one comment. I am certainly not an anarchist. I am a socialist who will do anything it takes to get a Labour government elected through democratic means.
The Russian Revolution was right and bound to happen. The people were impoverished because of the reign of Nicholas ll

Yes I believe " The Russian Revolution was right and what came after it was wrong" Communism was evil oppressive and dictoral.
That does not mean that the initial thirst for change was wrong. The outcome was disastrous. That was not what Marx advocated.

It happens all the time. A people will rise up against an oppressive regime, only then to be ruled by another oppressive dictorship.
It is not a competition but Stalin was probably responsible for more deaths than Hitler.

Old Bob
Posts: 181
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 3:23 pm
Re: Taking The Knee

Post by Old Bob » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:38 am

Shots70 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:54 pm
I think we’ve got the message now and the best thing to do is to punish anyone who did what those American police did like any crime not this knee nonsense
You consistently make the mistake of seeing black deaths in police custody as an isolated ("few bad apples") problem that will be solved by punishing the bad apples. This is so far from reality as to verge on delusional. The reality is that it's a symptom of a problem that is much wider. The real problem is endemic historical oppression of a large section of US society, and fixing that requires sustained and wide-ranging change.

So, no, I don't think you have got the message.

I listened to an American football player on the radio the other day, talking about BLM. He said" "You cannot solve a problem until you recognise it". BLM is about heightening awareness as a necessary part of solving the problem. Maybe it could be done better (most things can), but there's obviously a crying need to educate people about the reality, as your complacent post shows.

Shots70
Re: Taking The Knee

Post by Shots70 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:32 am

I have got the message and it’s seems far worse in America than here, theirs clearly no getting through to people like you unfortunately!

lanternhall
Posts: 1080
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:37 am
Re: Taking The Knee

Post by lanternhall » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:55 am

It is worse in America because the police carry guns and murder people. But don't close your eyes to the prejudice that exist here.

Shots70
Re: Taking The Knee

Post by Shots70 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:50 pm

lanternhall wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:55 am
It is worse in America because the police carry guns and murder people. But don't close your eyes to the prejudice that exist here.
Yes good point mr hall

lanternhall
Posts: 1080
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:37 am
Re: Taking The Knee

Post by lanternhall » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:57 pm

If you are Disturbed Postie and I hope you are. Welcome back.
Last edited by lanternhall on Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Crowthorne
Posts: 484
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:18 pm
Re: Taking The Knee

Post by Crowthorne » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:59 pm

lanternhall wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:55 am
It is worse in America because the police carry guns and murder people.
So do the crims. It's not all one sided as I pointed out the other day with the two police officers sitting in their car.

Shots70
Re: Taking The Knee

Post by Shots70 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:07 pm

Crowthorne wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:59 pm
lanternhall wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:55 am
It is worse in America because the police carry guns and murder people.
So do the crims. It's not all one sided as I pointed out the other day with the two police officers sitting in their car.
People ignored that laz

lanternhall
Posts: 1080
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:37 am
Re: Taking The Knee

Post by lanternhall » Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:07 pm

Crowthorne wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:59 pm
lanternhall wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:55 am
It is worse in America because the police carry guns and murder people.
So do the crims. It's not all one sided as I pointed out the other day with the two police officers sitting in their car.
Not excusing that crime but the reason that they are targeted is because of the widespread oppression and murder by the poluce of black Americans.

Localshot
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:31 am
Re: Taking The Knee

Post by Localshot » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:41 pm

In that context I am afraid that makes them no better than us. A crime is a crime.

Crowthorne
Posts: 484
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:18 pm
Re: Taking The Knee

Post by Crowthorne » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:15 pm

Shots70 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:07 pm
Crowthorne wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:59 pm
lanternhall wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:55 am
It is worse in America because the police carry guns and murder people.
So do the crims. It's not all one sided as I pointed out the other day with the two police officers sitting in their car.
People ignored that laz
That's the problem DP, sorry to say it but the OB are an easy target for people to turn on. They make mistakes and there are bad ones, but they are in a no win situation and plenty of undesirables would happily get rid of them so they could have a lawless playground.

Shots70
Re: Taking The Knee

Post by Shots70 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:31 pm

I’m with the OB all day long, if we all behaved the only conversation you have with one is to say hello otherwise you’re being a bellend

Crowthorne
Posts: 484
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:18 pm
Re: Taking The Knee

Post by Crowthorne » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:06 pm

I am still to be convinced that the CCP or FSB are not in some way linked to or financing some of these protests.

lanternhall
Posts: 1080
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:37 am
Re: Taking The Knee

Post by lanternhall » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:18 pm

Crowthorne wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:06 pm
I am still to be convinced that the CCP or FSB are not in some way linked to or financing some of these protests.
What planet do you live on?

Crowthorne
Posts: 484
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:18 pm
Re: Taking The Knee

Post by Crowthorne » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:28 pm

The CCP are quite happy to cause disruption to many organisations and western governments with cyber attacks, so why not go one step further. How many times have the Russians been accused of interfering in elections ? Easy to say what planet do you live on, try asking who benefits.


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