ShotsTrust Letter to Rushmoor Borough Council

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TracoShot
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Re: ShotsTrust Letter to Rushmoor Borough Council

Post by TracoShot » Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:54 pm

Got to say I find all of this thread very depressing and probably sums up where Aldershot is as a club.

To be successful and move forwards requires all parties to be moving in the same direction yet here we are.....how sad.

Cph.shots
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Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Re: ShotsTrust Letter to Rushmoor Borough Council

Post by Cph.shots » Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:17 pm

TracoShot wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:54 pm
Got to say I find all of this thread very depressing and probably sums up where Aldershot is as a club.

To be successful and move forwards requires all parties to be moving in the same direction yet here we are.....how sad.
Agreed Traco, very sad and have never understood the animosity between different supporter groups, it's not as if we're a massive club with lots of options.
To me it's a matter of getting behind the club and move forward.

Localshot
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Re: ShotsTrust Letter to Rushmoor Borough Council

Post by Localshot » Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:55 am

Richard Petty wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:17 pm
Localshot wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:14 pm
As the new Supporters Club was initiated and guided by the football club I would question using the word 'independence'.
I think you will find it was Ray from the Crimea that initiated it, I am fairly sure that he approached Mark Butler who then went to the board to ask if they would recognise it which they agreed to.
Not what I was told by folk in the know. Whoever they may be. :wink:

Steve Pink
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Location: Aldershot
Re: ShotsTrust Letter to Rushmoor Borough Council

Post by Steve Pink » Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:15 pm

That seems to be part of the problem, people in the know who think they know might not know.

Richard Petty
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Location: Farnborough
Re: ShotsTrust Letter to Rushmoor Borough Council

Post by Richard Petty » Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:56 pm

Steve Pink wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:15 pm
That seems to be part of the problem, people in the know who think they know might not know.
"As we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns—the ones we don't know we don't know".

(Donald Rumsfeld 2002) 8)

Crowthorne
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Re: ShotsTrust Letter to Rushmoor Borough Council

Post by Crowthorne » Tue Feb 16, 2021 1:22 pm

Richard Petty wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:56 pm
Steve Pink wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:15 pm
That seems to be part of the problem, people in the know who think they know might not know.
"As we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns—the ones we don't know we don't know".

(Donald Rumsfeld 2002) 8)
You could add to that, dont know dont want to know. Its non league football being discussed not a UN general assembly as some seem to be making it out to be.

Shots Supporters Trust
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Re: ShotsTrust Letter to Rushmoor Borough Council

Post by Shots Supporters Trust » Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:15 pm

Following our recent letter to Rushmoor Borough Council (RBC), we feel it's right to respond to supporters' to clarify our position on the Ground Development.

The Trust remains fully committed to ensuring that the ground development process at Aldershot Town Football Club is completed to the best possible standard, with the Football Club gaining the maximum possible benefits and potential this development should bring. We are more determined than ever to ensure that this happens, and will continue to contact both the Council and Football Club, offering our help and assistance in every way possible.

Our Chairman, Tommy Anderson, has received a response from RBC who have stated that, due to the matter being commercially confidential, they are unable to answer any of our questions raised in the letter. However, they have informed us that they would be prepared to be copied into any of our future correspondence with the Football Club in relation to updates on the Ground Development, in the hope that it will help persuade the Club to respond. We are grateful to RBC on their swift response, and plan on taking them up on their offer when corresponding with the Football Club.

Clearly, RBC's offer in March 2019 of a new, 118-year lease was a very exciting development. The lease and the potential new stadium is a “once in a lifetime opportunity” for the ATFC. We felt from the start that it was absolutely crucial that both parties seized the opportunity. We studied the proposed lease thoroughly, with a view to being prepared for engagement with the Club and RBC.

By May 2019, the Cabinet had agreed to the granting of a new lease once planning permission for development at and around the grounds of the stadium had been agreed.

On reviewing the original lease, we discovered that it did NOT include a covenant (or similar) to ensure that a new football ground MUST be built, with football being played on the new ground; our subsequent engagement with the Council ensured a number of changes:

- a covenant was included;

-the Council encouraged the Club to speak and meet with the Trust throughout this process, and this was minuted in their publicly-available meeting records;

- we asked, and the Council agreed, that the lease would be amended accordingly to include a football stadium, and signed over to ATFCL rather than Aldershot Town Football Club Regeneration Limited (ATFCRL).

As a result of our interventions, the revised lease (agreed with the Council in June 2019) now guarantees that football must be played on the grounds and that in no circumstances will ATFCRL be allowed to control the lease.

Despite these improvements, 21 months have passed and concerns remain around the timing of the lease being signed off. Very little progress seems to have been made or, at least, communicated. We note that Club Chairman Shahid Azeem answered questions posed on the lease during last week's episode of Shots TV Midweek Extra. We look forward to hearing the results of the particular meeting with Grainger, as well as more updates from Shahid Azeem in due course as matters develop.

We want the Club to be far more open about its plans, and to involve a broad cross-section of fans and the wider community in developing an exciting and financially viable future for the Club. We remain hopeful that we can engage with the Club as soon as possible and will continue to knock on that door and push for that.

Our intentions have always been crystal clear... We want to ensure that the Football Club thrives and flourishes, playing in an exciting new stadium that could really see the Club push on to new levels. We will continue to offer our assistance and help where possible, and in whatever way possible, in making sure this is achieved.

www.shotstrust.co.uk

Aldershot_Rob
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Re: ShotsTrust Letter to Rushmoor Borough Council

Post by Aldershot_Rob » Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:51 pm

I think the response from the Trust shows they aren't fighting against the club, more, fighting to protect the club.

Including the covenant shows where their loyalty lies. Safeguarding the long-term future and playing ground for the club is the best interests of ALL supporters, regardless of whether they are a Trust member or not.

Whilst I haven't always agreed with their actions , I can aay I confidently support them on the stadium plans and I trust them to do what's best for supporters and not for themselves.

Dr Jim Royle
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Re: ShotsTrust Letter to Rushmoor Borough Council

Post by Dr Jim Royle » Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:24 pm

Read letter several times.

Already stated my thoughts on Trust, so may be me, but letter still comes across as aloof. It was our current BOD and Chairman that worked socks off with RBC to get 188 year lease and at no time do the Trust seem to acknowledge this (I may have missed). There is so clearly people on The Trust that our current BOD do not wish to work alongside, no point keep dragging up the why's and where fors.

Unless Moses returns to part the seas or Prince Boris Van Arkinnwright steps in with the odd billion things are what they are.

Turnkey
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Re: ShotsTrust Letter to Rushmoor Borough Council

Post by Turnkey » Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:32 pm

Dr Jim Royle wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:24 pm
Read letter several times.

Already stated my thoughts on Trust, so may be me, but letter still comes across as aloof. It was our current BOD and Chairman that worked socks off with RBC to get 188 year lease and at no time do the Trust seem to acknowledge this (I may have missed). There is so clearly people on The Trust that our current BOD do not wish to work alongside, no point keep dragging up the why's and where fors.

Unless Moses returns to part the seas or Prince Boris Van Arkinnwright steps in with the odd billion things are what they are.
Still begs two questions though Jim, both of which I find troubling.

Why did the Board want a lease without a covenant built in?
Why was the redevelopment to be run by a separate company rather than the football club?

I have my thoughts on this, but will await further updates from the BoD before my mind is put to rest.

Aldershot_Rob
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Location: England
Re: ShotsTrust Letter to Rushmoor Borough Council

Post by Aldershot_Rob » Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:05 pm

Turnkey wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:32 pm
Why did the Board want a lease without a covenant built in?
Why was the redevelopment to be run by a separate company rather than the football club?

I have my thoughts on this, but will await further updates from the BoD before my mind is put to rest.
Absolutely spot on. Say what you will about the Trust,but I'd put my mortgage on the lease being signed, sealed and delivered in double quick time had those points not been raised and amended.

bordon shot
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Re: ShotsTrust Letter to Rushmoor Borough Council

Post by bordon shot » Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:38 pm

Turnkey wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:32 pm
Dr Jim Royle wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:24 pm
Read letter several times.

Already stated my thoughts on Trust, so may be me, but letter still comes across as aloof. It was our current BOD and Chairman that worked socks off with RBC to get 188 year lease and at no time do the Trust seem to acknowledge this (I may have missed). There is so clearly people on The Trust that our current BOD do not wish to work alongside, no point keep dragging up the why's and where fors.

Unless Moses returns to part the seas or Prince Boris Van Arkinnwright steps in with the odd billion things are what they are.
Still begs two questions though Jim, both of which I find troubling.

Why did the Board want a lease without a covenant built in?
Why was the redevelopment to be run by a separate company rather than the football club?

I have my thoughts on this, but will await further updates from the BoD before my mind is put to rest.
Is there a need for a convenant ? All the talk is about ground redevelopment- updating what we already have. Also, if the BOD was attempting to get the ground redeveloped without a football ground included, I very much doubt RBC would let that happen.

On the second point, the redevelopment would need a totally different management team, I very much doubt the board of the football club have any idea or experience in construction, so having a separate board to oversee it, seems logical to me.

The good Dr is right when he says the trust come across a bit aloof in all this, what exactly can they bring to the table to assist ? Especially as Shaheed has stated tonight, it was the trust that left the table..No one forced them.

Turnkey
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Re: ShotsTrust Letter to Rushmoor Borough Council

Post by Turnkey » Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:51 pm

bordon shot wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:38 pm
Turnkey wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:32 pm
Dr Jim Royle wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:24 pm
Read letter several times.

Already stated my thoughts on Trust, so may be me, but letter still comes across as aloof. It was our current BOD and Chairman that worked socks off with RBC to get 188 year lease and at no time do the Trust seem to acknowledge this (I may have missed). There is so clearly people on The Trust that our current BOD do not wish to work alongside, no point keep dragging up the why's and where fors.

Unless Moses returns to part the seas or Prince Boris Van Arkinnwright steps in with the odd billion things are what they are.
Still begs two questions though Jim, both of which I find troubling.

Why did the Board want a lease without a covenant built in?
Why was the redevelopment to be run by a separate company rather than the football club?

I have my thoughts on this, but will await further updates from the BoD before my mind is put to rest.
Is there a need for a convenant ? All the talk is about ground redevelopment- updating what we already have. Also, if the BOD was attempting to get the ground redeveloped without a football ground included, I very much doubt RBC would let that happen.

On the second point, the redevelopment would need a totally different management team, I very much doubt the board of the football club have any idea or experience in construction, so having a separate board to oversee it, seems logical to me.

The good Dr is right when he says the trust come across a bit aloof in all this, what exactly can they bring to the table to assist ? Especially as Shaheed has stated tonight, it was the trust that left the table..No one forced them.
The need for a covenant is to protect the football club from having the ground sold from under it. The redevelopment hasn’t started yet, what’s to stop the lease being sold to a developer once the lease is signed and before work commences?

As to your second point, look at the make up of the two company boards. ATFCL (the club) is made up of Shahid,a couple of property developers and a solicitor acting for an unknown investor. ATFCRL (the development company) is made up of Shahid, two builders and the owner of Spedeworth.

Read into that what you will.

Dr Jim Royle
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Re: ShotsTrust Letter to Rushmoor Borough Council

Post by Dr Jim Royle » Sat Feb 20, 2021 5:25 am

[Is there a need for a convenant ? All the talk is about ground redevelopment- updating what we already have. Also, if the BOD was attempting to get the ground redeveloped without a football ground included, I very much doubt RBC would let that happen./quote]

There is no doubt both BOD and RBC had set up the lease around the football club, but no issue with there being a convenant being inserted.

As for the actual development company being different to say only ATFC, if you look at just about every new stadium developments, it is usually done by a different team of investors to that of just a football club. The folk who invest the cash in the development are the ones taking biggest risk, and will only naturally want to see a return on their investment. Do you think Spurs Football Club own their own ground?

The Club, when stadium built, will have a base to play football and earn monies to invest in its future from off field opportunities. I don’t think we can ask more.

Going back to The Trust, midweek show answered most regarding the rift. The bad feeling is clear, damage done and things said will not fix with current parties and personnel being near same. The club has affiliated itself with the newer Supporters Club all officially in place, so still see the need to embrace us fans.

But I’m sure The Trust will continue with their own agenda.

Localshot
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Re: ShotsTrust Letter to Rushmoor Borough Council

Post by Localshot » Sat Feb 20, 2021 8:59 am

Dr Jim Royle wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 5:25 am


But I’m sure The Trust will continue with their own agenda.
They may have in your words 'an agenda' but it is also clear that you do and so do the football club. Not sure why it is so different for them.


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