Do you remember the season that this was trialled?

karlready
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Re: Do you remember the season that this was trialled?

Post by karlready »

Cph.shots wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 11:44 am I completely agree about a punishment for abusing and even approaching a referee, all communication should go through the captain, isn't that the way i rugby?
Also I'd like to see something that punishes those fanning injury, maybe compulsory 2 min on sideline, that shouldn't affect those with geuine injuries but might discourage those faking it.
I thought surrounding and pressurising the ref was already an offence. Maybe a warning, then a mass yellow-carding would sort that out.
Playing the ball into a corner and fannying around can never be an offence, it’s in the field of play, and you can do whatever you like. It’s up to the opposition to get the ball off you.
The 6-second goalkeeper rule is farcical, never enforced, and should be modified , the GK having to play with his feet after that time. Most decent keepers are good outfield players, anyway. Could be fun with some of the plonkers in our league….
through a glass darkly
Bob
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Re: Do you remember the season that this was trialled?

Post by Bob »

karlready wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 11:56 am
Cph.shots wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 11:44 am I completely agree about a punishment for abusing and even approaching a referee, all communication should go through the captain, isn't that the way i rugby?
Also I'd like to see something that punishes those fanning injury, maybe compulsory 2 min on sideline, that shouldn't affect those with geuine injuries but might discourage those faking it.
I thought surrounding and pressurising the ref was already an offence. Maybe a warning, then a mass yellow-carding would sort that out.
Playing the ball into a corner and fannying around can never be an offence, it’s in the field of play, and you can do whatever you like. It’s up to the opposition to get the ball off you.
The 6-second goalkeeper rule is farcical, never enforced, and should be modified , the GK having to play with his feet after that time. Most decent keepers are good outfield players, anyway. Could be fun with some of the plonkers in our league….
Good post 👍
15-4-08
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Re: Do you remember the season that this was trialled?

Post by 15-4-08 »

Cph.shots wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 11:44 am I completely agree about a punishment for abusing and even approaching a referee, all communication should go through the captain, isn't that the way i rugby?
Also I'd like to see something that punishes those fanning injury, maybe compulsory 2 min on sideline, that shouldn't affect those with geuine injuries but might discourage those faking it.
Absolutely agree 🤙🏻
15-4-08
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Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:56 pm
Re: Do you remember the season that this was trialled?

Post by 15-4-08 »

karlready wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 11:56 am
Cph.shots wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 11:44 am I completely agree about a punishment for abusing and even approaching a referee, all communication should go through the captain, isn't that the way i rugby?
Also I'd like to see something that punishes those fanning injury, maybe compulsory 2 min on sideline, that shouldn't affect those with geuine injuries but might discourage those faking it.
I thought surrounding and pressurising the ref was already an offence. Maybe a warning, then a mass yellow-carding would sort that out.
Playing the ball into a corner and fannying around can never be an offence, it’s in the field of play, and you can do whatever you like. It’s up to the opposition to get the ball off you.
The 6-second goalkeeper rule is farcical, never enforced, and should be modified , the GK having to play with his feet after that time. Most decent keepers are good outfield players, anyway. Could be fun with some of the plonkers in our league….
I thought surrounding the ref as an offence. If the ref waved 5 or 6 cards the first time he’s surrounded, the players would soon stop!

Absolutely, the captain should be the only player permitted to approach the ref.
C_Rage
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Re: Do you remember the season that this was trialled?

Post by C_Rage »

I seem to remember that season we had a very short team and couldn't do anything against the taller teams. Then we signed players like Darren Angell (i think) and they dropped the rule meaning we had little players running rings round us. ha. (thats how it felt anyway!!)

Hated that rule.. really made a mockery of the game. I don't like changes to the game but admittedly some really do work (like not picking up from a back pass)
Stenhouse
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Re: Do you remember the season that this was trialled?

Post by Stenhouse »

I think if officials fully enforced the current laws of the game, that would be a great improvement. Also ‘corner cuddling’ by defenders needs to be addressed.
Wylie, McLaughlan & Jack, Taylor, Kinnell & Moore, Sugden, Dickson, Mullen, Bostock & Ross.
CH
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Re: Do you remember the season that this was trialled?

Post by CH »

We needed big Steve Harris at the back that season, but he had a falling out with Wignall and left for Basingstoke. Left us with relatively short centre backs of Chambers Udal and Keith Baker, while Andy Russell was tall but not really imposing. Later in the season we signed Darren Angell and Solomon Eriemo for their height but the cat was out the bag by then.
Fuggletim
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Re: Do you remember the season that this was trialled?

Post by Fuggletim »

“Playing the ball into a corner and fannying around can never be an offence, it’s in the field of play, and you can do whatever you like. It’s up to the opposition to get the ball off you.”

Quite true, but it is time wasting and even if it is us who are doing it, it remains frustrating. I think people pay to watch attacking football and a hunger to win and score goals. This does not involve “fannying” around in the corner for an indeterminate period of time.

One of the principals behind the abolition of the handling from a back pass was because it encouraged time wasting. That was still on the field of play, and I can’t really see a difference in the principal to that and taking the ball off to the corner for a few hours….
Richard Petty
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Re: Do you remember the season that this was trialled?

Post by Richard Petty »

Fuggletim wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 6:48 pm “Playing the ball into a corner and fannying around can never be an offence, it’s in the field of play, and you can do whatever you like. It’s up to the opposition to get the ball off you.”

Quite true, but it is time wasting and even if it is us who are doing it, it remains frustrating. I think people pay to watch attacking football and a hunger to win and score goals. This does not involve “fannying” around in the corner for an indeterminate period of time.

One of the principals behind the abolition of the handling from a back pass was because it encouraged time wasting. That was still on the field of play, and I can’t really see a difference in the principal to that and taking the ball off to the corner for a few hours….
Playing into the corner really is one of those of those "depends if your winning or losing" scenarios.

When your losing its really annoying when the opposition takes the ball into the corner, however when your winning just listen to how many supporters are shouting for them to take it into the corner. :D
The old saying goes "You can please some of the people some of the time, but you will never please all the people all the time." In fact sometimes it seems impossible to even please some of the people any of the time
Fuggletim
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Re: Do you remember the season that this was trialled?

Post by Fuggletim »

Richard Petty wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 7:02 pm
Fuggletim wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 6:48 pm “Playing the ball into a corner and fannying around can never be an offence, it’s in the field of play, and you can do whatever you like. It’s up to the opposition to get the ball off you.”

Quite true, but it is time wasting and even if it is us who are doing it, it remains frustrating. I think people pay to watch attacking football and a hunger to win and score goals. This does not involve “fannying” around in the corner for an indeterminate period of time.

One of the principals behind the abolition of the handling from a back pass was because it encouraged time wasting. That was still on the field of play, and I can’t really see a difference in the principal to that and taking the ball off to the corner for a few hours….
Playing into the corner really is one of those of those "depends if your winning or losing" scenarios.

When your losing its really annoying when the opposition takes the ball into the corner, however when your winning just listen to how many supporters are shouting for them to take it into the corner. :D
Not me Richard, I can assure you! I want to see attacking positive football for an entire game and not this scourge that has blighted the game probably in only the last 10-15 x years.
hepcat
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Re: Do you remember the season that this was trialled?

Post by hepcat »

So far Wenger's genius ideas have been to have a World Cup every two years and the kick in. How much is this old fool getting paid for this rubbish ?
How about deciding drawn finals with the managers playing a Subbuteo game (10 minutes each way) live from the semi circle or introducing elements from the 70's "It's a Knock Out" to increase entertainment ?
shots1965
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List of planned rule changes set to shake up football within next five years

Post by shots1965 »

A list of planned rule changes set to shake up football within the next five years has been revealed, and not everyone is happy.
The beautiful game we all know and love has been changing a lot over the last decade or so, with the introduction of VAR, goal line technology, injury prevention and fan behaviour among many other things.
But FIFA is still fed up with time wasters and the world governing body is looking for ways to speed up the game.
Arsene Wenger, who is now FIFA’s chief of global development, put forward a number of radical proposals in 2020, and while some of them prompted sniggering from the football world, we are starting to see some creeping in.
He demanded a better spectacle and kick-ins instead of throw ins, automated offsides, self-serve free kicks, quick corners and a countdown clock are potential law changes which are expected to be tested following discussions at the 136th Annual General Meeting of the International Football Association Board.
‘The reality is that in five years, at the elite level, football is not going to resemble what is played on a Sunday morning in the park,’ said Dr Tom Webb a senior lecturer and an expert in refereeing at the University of Portsmouth.
The game’s rule makers, the International Football Association Board, are under pressure to keep the game appealing and IFAB is planning a series of trials before making a decision on any changes.
Football bosses are aware they have to engage a younger generation of fans, who may not be prepared to spend 45 minutes of the regulation 90 waiting for the ball to come back into play.
Dr Tom Webb and Sportsmail talked about the four changes IFAB are expected to consider.


The Countdown Clock:
Likely to see it in the next five years: Yes
Instead of the 90 minutes set down when the laws were codified in 1863, 60 minutes of competitive action is being considered instead.
As it stands in the Premier League, ‘ball in play time’ is at its lowest level for more than 10 years. In 2021-22, the teams only competed for 55 minutes and seven seconds per match, on average. Sportmail report how it’s even worse in the Championship, Leagues One and Two, where ‘effective playing time’ drops below 50 minutes.
The solution is a clock that counts down from 30 minutes to zero in each half, but like in basketball, it is stopped for each delay.
Looking at the stats, just Manchester City return an average effective playing time of more than 60 minutes in the top flight.
Time-wasting occurs around almost all restarts, such as goal kicks, throw-ins, free kicks, corners, and in the theatrical walk offs during substitutions.
West Ham and Brentford are two other top flight sides who relied on set pieces for goals. When they faced off at the London Stadium back in October, there were 17 corners and 29 fouls awarded by referee Peter Bankes, with the ball was in play for just 41 minutes and 33 seconds, as Brentford won 2-1.
The countdown clock has already been tested at the Future of Football Cup in 2021, a youth tournament contested by PSV Eindhoven, AZ Alkmaar, RB Leipzig, and Club Brugge, and was well received.

Excellent idea👍


Kick-ins to replace throw-ins
Could we see it in five years: No
While cutting the length of the game from 90 to 60 minutes with a countdown clock looks like a bigger change than using a kick-in instead of a throw-in, experts suggest that a kick-in would have a far greater impact on the game.
‘It’s a bigger change,’ said Dr Webb. ‘This would be a fundamental shift and it has a way to go in terms of winning the argument.’
This is something that FIFA trialled the kick-in in Belgium, Hungary… and the Diadora League in the 1994-95 season but hasn’t gone down well.
Allan Cockram, then-manager of St Albans City, threatened to terminate his players’ contracts if they attempted a kick-in.
Mark Lawford, a reporter who covered Horsham FC for the West Sussex County Times, said: ‘Soon, all teams will field five seven-foot defenders and three even taller attackers, while ‘keepers will probably have to duck just to avoid the floodlights’, he reflected. ‘There is nothing pretty in watching the ball launched time after time from the touchline.’
There is no evidence the footballers of the Diadora League grew taller, but they did ‘launch it’.
‘I saw East Thurrock v Flackwell Heath on the first day of the season – it was awful,’ recalled one fan on the Non-League Matters chat forum, 10 years following the trial’s end. ‘Whenever a throw-in was won, someone would just toe punt the ball towards the opponent’s box where there was a mass of six-foot plus blokes waiting.’
‘It was appalling,’ agreed another supporter. ‘A mockery. Slowed the whole match down as every time the ball went out it ended up as a set piece free-kick. Hated it and glad to see the back of it.’
When kick-ins were reported about in June 2022, Gary Lineker gave his verdict: ‘Not sure it’s a good idea. Will slow the game down as every throw-in in the opponents half becomes a free kick.’
Wenger suggests there could be a time limit of five seconds while others talks about limitations on where the kick-in could be used. Yet that just proves it wouldn’t work due to every complication adding complexity – and time.

Self-serve free kicks
This is something that has been described as a great idea which will speed the game up immediately.
Could we see it within the next five years: Yes
‘Given FIFA want to speed the game up, this would be fairly straight forward to do,’ said Dr Webb. ‘It gives teams an option to play quickly and may mean they do not necessarily load the box.’
‘Bringing the big lads up from the back’ is always a time-consuming process.
It is being compared to a tap in rugby, a self-serve free kick would play into the hands of a switched-on footballer who spots an opportunity and takes advantage of it with a piece of freestyle skill.
This could go on to create exciting attacking opportunities, would accelerate the game, reduce the amount of protests from offending players.
‘They would have to look at players being a distance from the ball in football, too,’ said Dr Webb. ‘Otherwise, players would just stand on the ball and no time would be saved.’
Lineker believes the quick free kick would be a useful change, saying: ‘If you want to change something; allow players to take quick free-kicks, even to themselves,’ he added on Twitter. ‘Punish those who foul, not those who are fouled. Would speed the game up too.’
Quick Corners
The self-serve corner has already been used in youth matches between Rangers and Dundee United last season and trialled at the Future Football Cup, along with quick-tap free kicks and the countdown clock.
The new style of corner was reportedly ineffective, however the coaches had little time to prepare and with preparation they could be a dangerous option.
When looking at Man City: they won more corners (316) than any other side in the Premier League last season and developed a failed short-corner routine too, something they use for one third of their kicks.
The Athletic write that City work the ball between two corner takers and a third man with the plan to change the angle of the cross and allowing three aggressive attackers time to lose their markers.
The options increase manifold if the corner taker can tap it to himself.
‘It is another tactical option,’ said Dr Webb. ‘I can see a real benefit to the attacking team. Defenders may not be organised and so aware of where the attackers are, so it creates opportunities.
‘There may be a benefit to taking it quickly rather than waiting for all of the defenders to come up. Given there is a drive to quicken the game up this could be an option.’
Teams like Man City, Liverpool and Chelsea often attack the ‘half-spaces’, which are the imaginary strips of the pitch down the sides of the penalty area. The likes of Jack Grealish, Mo Salah and Reece James love to operate in these areas.
We see crosses become passes, players desperate to avoid fouls and driven balls likely to bounce off defenders.
A quick-tap corner will see an opportunity for a footballer to run into this dangerous space, while the defending team is still organising. Defenders need to come out and meet the threat creating more space in the penalty area.
Sportsmail say quick-tap corners would see a break from the set piece and ritual wrestling that accompanies it. Even if teams only used them sparingly, it come save hours of penalty box mediation by officials, every season.

*MERGED*
Old Bob
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Re: List of planned rule changes set to shake up football within next five years

Post by Old Bob »

What seems to have escaped Arsene Wenger's attention is that the solution to problems of time wasting is already in the hands of referees ... it's just that for whatever reason they don't use it.

When I was a kid, most free kicks were taken quickly, without worrying about giving the opposition time to retreat 10 yards. Basically, it was the choice of the team awarded the free kick ... take it quickly or ask the referee to make it "ceremonial", i.e., opposition got 10 yards away and play restarted with ref's whistle. These days, refs take it on themselves to make virtually all free kicks ceremonial ... very often because they want time to consider if a booking is warranted. The liberal use of "shaving foam" also disposes refs to slow down free kicks.

Two other points: (1) opposition players running up to the point of the free kick to stop it being taken quickly should simply be booked; (2) if a booking is warranted for the offence leading to the free kick, it isn't necessary to do it before the free kick, refs can always go back and do it at the next break in play.
shots1965
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Re: List of planned rule changes set to shake up football within next five years

Post by shots1965 »

Old Bob wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:52 pm What seems to have escaped Arsene Wenger's attention is that the solution to problems of time wasting is already in the hands of referees ... it's just that for whatever reason they don't use it.

When I was a kid, most free kicks were taken quickly, without worrying about giving the opposition time to retreat 10 yards. Basically, it was the choice of the team awarded the free kick ... take it quickly or ask the referee to make it "ceremonial", i.e., opposition got 10 yards away and play restarted with ref's whistle. These days, refs take it on themselves to make virtually all free kicks ceremonial ... very often because they want time to consider if a booking is warranted. The liberal use of "shaving foam" also disposes refs to slow down free kicks.

Two other points: (1) opposition players running up to the point of the free kick to stop it being taken quickly should simply be booked; (2) if a booking is warranted for the offence leading to the free kick, it isn't necessary to do it before the free kick, refs can always go back and do it at the next break in play.
Personally, My favorite is, the countdown clock

60 minutes… Absolutely Genius-of an idea

Could be the best thing ever to happen to the game

Just my personal opinion 🙏😃

Currently only 55 minutes average game time … absolute joke

Just think.. no more time wasting… Jorden Pickford taking 5 minutes to take a goal kick… free kicks etc the list goes on
Cut that crap completely out+
Get a proper and fair game

Yes/no guys?

Me👍👍👍
Old Bob
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Re: List of planned rule changes set to shake up football within next five years

Post by Old Bob »

Not for me, '65. Just get the referee to run the game properly.

It is unwise to make far reaching, radical changes to the game (with the huge attendant danger of unintended consequences) when simply reverting to stricter refereeing is a perfectly adequate solution. Remember football is a vastly popular game and rightly so. There is not too much wrong with it. There is no need to gild the lily ... take a sledge hammer to a nut ... whatever your favourite saying is.

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