Southgate

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Charles Dickens
Posts: 151
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:38 am
Re: Southgate

Post by Charles Dickens » Sat Jun 05, 2021 2:48 pm

Red-n-Blue wrote:
Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:32 pm
Southgate is starting to get on my tits.

This morning he slammed the fans who booed when the players took the knee, saying they, "don't understand the message."

Tell you what, Gareth, why don't you ask those fans why they're booing, or is understanding a one-way street? Better still, keep your mouth shut and focus on the job of football.
He said that taking the knee is not political and therefore booing fans just don`t understand. It is in fact a BLM promoted gesture and indeed very political. Mr Southgate needs to concentrate on his well paid day job and not venture into areas that as demonstrated, he clearly does not himself understand.

IanShots
Posts: 132
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2021 4:12 pm
Re: Southgate

Post by IanShots » Sat Jun 05, 2021 6:41 pm

BLM certainly promote it but they didn’t create it! The players are only doing it on the basis of equality for all, they are not interested neither do they care about politics in most cases.

Personally I think it’s time to stop it now, in fact it was time a while back, but not quite sure why people are so bothered about it.

For anyone on here that suggests there is no rascism out there, as I can see coming across from some, ask yourself how you know that? The fact is it’s not possible for you to know that as you don’t have to suffer it.

Jason
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 1:18 pm
Re: Southgate

Post by Jason » Sat Jun 05, 2021 7:19 pm

redblueuptoyou wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 8:22 am
shots1965 wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 1:39 am
Aldershot_Rob wrote:
Thu Jun 03, 2021 8:44 pm


Imagine making a sweeping statement like that about black people, or Asians, or anyone for that matter? Get a grip, you're embarrassing yourself.
Everyone of every walk of life can experience injustices, prejudices and have awful experiences.

Do we make a gesture for rape victims? No, but we have rainbows for the LGBTQRzsTUVWzxYz community.
Do we have gestures for those poor women who suffer in the sex slave industry?
Or men , women and children who part of modern day slavery that is happening globally? No but we do have a diversity programme in the work place now.

Please don't patronise and assume that people are any less human because they boo are feeble gesture for equality that was started because the death of a criminal thousands of miles away.
I agree with you 100%, …getting very old and tedious now

There are a lot worse things going on in the world

There are millions of injustices going on right now in this world
I don’t think BLM is anywhere near priority

I’ve been called lots of nasty things in my life…I never ever cried about it
GTF over it

Taking a knee, taking the P more like

I will never knell down and apologize for being white


Just my personal opinion
Definitely other concerns around e.g. climate change will make Covid look like a walk in the park!

No one wants you to apologise for being white. You’re reading something into a symbolic action that doesn’t exist. Maybe people should just let them get on with it or ignore it rather than boo?
Whatever connotations people draw through their own mental gymnastics, it’s been declared an anti-racism gesture by those who are doing it. Or put it another way, people can be neither religious (God Save) or a royalist (Our Queen) but still respect our national anthem. Maybe offer the same respect here?
I like this post about the National Anthem. I wonder how many of the people who are anti taking the knee and agree with the booing of it would be angry if a percentage of people started booing the National Anthem, because they do not believe in God, or do agree with the monarchy.

thomas
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Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 8:50 pm
Location: Camberley
Re: Southgate

Post by thomas » Sat Jun 05, 2021 7:49 pm

Southgates comment on the taking of the knee, could be adverse actions by the fans!! Does he not realise that could be losing support for the England team!! In fact the support slogan should be <All lives matter>!!

bordon shot
Posts: 444
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:13 pm
Re: Southgate

Post by bordon shot » Sat Jun 05, 2021 7:50 pm

IanShots wrote:
Sat Jun 05, 2021 6:41 pm
BLM certainly promote it but they didn’t create it! The players are only doing it on the basis of equality for all, they are not interested neither do they care about politics in most cases.

Personally I think it’s time to stop it now, in fact it was time a while back, but not quite sure why people are so bothered about it.

For anyone on here that suggests there is no rascism out there, as I can see coming across from some, ask yourself how you know that? The fact is it’s not possible for you to know that as you don’t have to suffer it.
I don’t believe anyone has suggested that, that’s just the narrative being twisted again.

IanShots
Posts: 132
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2021 4:12 pm
Re: Southgate

Post by IanShots » Sun Jun 06, 2021 1:11 pm

bordon shot wrote:
Sat Jun 05, 2021 7:50 pm
IanShots wrote:
Sat Jun 05, 2021 6:41 pm
BLM certainly promote it but they didn’t create it! The players are only doing it on the basis of equality for all, they are not interested neither do they care about politics in most cases.

Personally I think it’s time to stop it now, in fact it was time a while back, but not quite sure why people are so bothered about it.

For anyone on here that suggests there is no rascism out there, as I can see coming across from some, ask yourself how you know that? The fact is it’s not possible for you to know that as you don’t have to suffer it.
I don’t believe anyone has suggested that, that’s just the narrative being twisted again.
Really you think so?
“It is no ones privilege, it is a dog eat dog world out there and you're just as likely to get chewed up and spat out these days if you are white than if you were anyother colour or race.”
As I say how the hell does he know?

Chalkie
Posts: 118
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2007 12:50 am
Location: Church Crookham
Re: Southgate

Post by Chalkie » Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:59 am

Just asking......
Did the England players do anything to mark the remembrance of D - Day before the game yesterday?
Minute silence?
Black arm bands?
Thought not!

IanShots
Posts: 132
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2021 4:12 pm
Re: Southgate

Post by IanShots » Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:15 am

Chalkie wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:59 am
Just asking......
Did the England players do anything to mark the remembrance of D - Day before the game yesterday?
Minute silence?
Black arm bands?
Thought not!
What has an event of 77 years ago got to do with what is happening now?
What are not fighting a war but people are still fighting rascism.

scorp
Posts: 424
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:54 pm
Location: England
Re: Southgate

Post by scorp » Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:29 am

IanShots wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:15 am
Chalkie wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:59 am
Just asking......
Did the England players do anything to mark the remembrance of D - Day before the game yesterday?
Minute silence?
Black arm bands?
Thought not!
What has an event of 77 years ago got to do with what is happening now?
What are not fighting a war but people are still fighting rascism.
A number of football players went to the front in Normandy as soldiers. Among them were Matt Busby and Joe Mercer - and Bill Nicholson. Some played for Aldershot - while they were stationed in army barracks at Aldershot - en route to France, among them Bill Nicholson and the England back three, although the latter not all at the same time perhaps. Matt Busby was in the Aldershot area for a time. Here is an interesting paragraph from the Chelsea FC link below: "Clubs close to barracks were the big beneficiaries and lowly Aldershot fielded whole elevens of star servicemen. Stamford Bridge’s wonderful rail and Underground links made the ground easily accessible – Aldershot was a little over 30 miles distant and there were RAF bases at Bovingdon (25 miles away) and Greenham Common (55 miles)."

https://www.chelseafc.com/en/news/2020/ ... rs--includ

IanShots
Posts: 132
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2021 4:12 pm
Re: Southgate

Post by IanShots » Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:32 pm

scorp wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:29 am
IanShots wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:15 am
Chalkie wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:59 am
Just asking......
Did the England players do anything to mark the remembrance of D - Day before the game yesterday?
Minute silence?
Black arm bands?
Thought not!
What has an event of 77 years ago got to do with what is happening now?
What are not fighting a war but people are still fighting rascism.
A number of football players went to the front in Normandy as soldiers. Among them were Matt Busby and Joe Mercer - and Bill Nicholson. Some played for Aldershot - while they were stationed in army barracks at Aldershot - en route to France, among them Bill Nicholson and the England back three, although the latter not all at the same time perhaps. Matt Busby was in the Aldershot area for a time. Here is an interesting paragraph from the Chelsea FC link below: "Clubs close to barracks were the big beneficiaries and lowly Aldershot fielded whole elevens of star servicemen. Stamford Bridge’s wonderful rail and Underground links made the ground easily accessible – Aldershot was a little over 30 miles distant and there were RAF bases at Bovingdon (25 miles away) and Greenham Common (55 miles)."

https://www.chelseafc.com/en/news/2020/ ... rs--includ
All very interesting (genuinely), but not relevant to the conversation which is what is happening now.

Kevin Carlin
Posts: 788
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2010 6:30 pm
Re: Southgate

Post by Kevin Carlin » Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:37 pm

Wokingham Shot wrote:
Thu Jun 03, 2021 9:38 am
Not a lot of middle ground with England still I see!

Either going to win the world cup or should be bought home after the first game in disgrace.

From the outside looking in, this genuinely is as good an opportunity as they are going to get. Feel free to name a country playing England at Wembley who would start decent favourites.

I suggest you get on board and enjoy this, it maybe a while till the stars align like this for the national team.

(Oh and Kevin, unless I am mis-reading you and you are talking 'in-person', whilst the Dutch game was great, surely No.1 is Germany away 2001 and No.2 Yugoslavia away in '87?)
Obviously as much I loved the Germany win the Dutch one for me is still my favourite.
What about Italy 0 v 4 England in Turin in 1948 :lol:

Kevin Carlin
Posts: 788
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2010 6:30 pm
Re: Southgate

Post by Kevin Carlin » Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:42 pm

Downing Street urged England football fans to "get behind" the team but refused to condemn supporters who booed players for taking the knee in protest at racial injustice.

The Prime Minister's official spokesman said: "The Prime Minister supports individuals' rights to protest."


Mr Johnson "fully respects the right of people in this country to peacefully protest and make their feelings known about injustices".

Asked whether the Prime Minister was refusing to criticise supporters who boo the gesture, the spokesman said: "No... the Prime Minister is supporting the England football team and wants them to succeed and he wants the whole country to get behind them in that endeavour in this tournament.

Ian M
Posts: 140
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:09 am
Location: 5 miles from Chepstow, Monmouthshire
Re: Southgate

Post by Ian M » Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:06 pm

The players and management have made it clear why they continue to take the knee... that's good enough for me...

But if folk are daft enough to boo their own players before a game, they won't understand the point the players are trying to make.

The thing that happened 77 years ago is why we are sat here now.... maybe that makes it very relevant.

Anon E Mouse
Posts: 4411
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 1:29 pm
Re: Southgate

Post by Anon E Mouse » Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:20 pm

Ian M wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:06 pm
The players and management have made it clear why they continue to take the knee... that's good enough for me...

But if folk are daft enough to boo their own players before a game, they won't understand the point the players are trying to make.

The thing that happened 77 years ago is why we are sat here now.... maybe that makes it very relevant.
Spot on.

Red-n-Blue
Posts: 175
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 8:53 am
Location: Aldershot
Re: Southgate

Post by Red-n-Blue » Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:27 pm

I've just read a post on the subject of fans booing the knee taking, and I think it succinctly sums up why it's happening...

(Copied in full from Unherd - https://unherd.com/thepost/dont-dismiss ... as-bigots/)

“That some fans are booing players taking the knee shows just how far football still has to go in tackling racism.” That is the type of high-minded narrative beginning to take hold following the hostile reaction displayed by many supporters when England’s players took the knee before recent matches against Austria and Romania.

In truth, things are not quite so clear-cut. While it is certainly the case that a schism has emerged on the issue, it would be wrong to portray it as one between a few hardcore bigots and everyone else.

On the one hand we see the game’s authorities and big-name stars who, in supporting knee-taking, appear driven by a desire to flaunt their progressive credentials (as well, no doubt, as an acute fear of causing offence by being seen to display anything less than full-throated support) and, on the other, thousands of ordinary fans — and not just those emitting boos — who are, let us be frank, growing increasingly frustrated at what, for them, has become a protracted moral lecture.

These fans have a point. Any campaign seeking to garner mass appeal must, by definition, try to take people with it. On this, the Black Lives Matter movement — which, let us not forget, is synonymous with the whole knee-taking phenomenon — has singularly failed. And not, as is sometimes implied, on account of dissenters themselves being inherently racist; but because the general tactics have, from the outset, been ill-judged and divisive.

When people see local statues being defaced or torn down without any sort of debate, they get angry. When they hear their country inaccurately depicted as a cesspit of racism, it rankles. And when they are bombarded with the same political message wherever they look, whether it’s in their local supermarket, when using public services, in their workplace, on their favourite TV shows, splashed on the products they buy, or rammed home relentlessly at sporting and other public events, their patience begins to wear thin.

These objectors aren’t, for the most part, opposing the message. In fact, the number of people in today’s Britain who believe that black lives don’t matter is, thankfully, ever diminishing. What they object to is the method of delivery. So pervasive is the propaganda in their everyday lives that, in the end, they must be forgiven for concluding that they are personally its target, that it is they who are considered the problem — bigots, all of them, in need of “re-education”.

The knee-takers and their cheerleaders would do well to take a lead from the Kick It Out movement, which, thanks to its subtle and intelligent campaigning over many years, has contributed enormously in helping to press home the message that racism has no place in football or wider society. Kick It Out took people with it, such that, in nearly 40 years of attending football matches, I have never heard a bad word uttered about the organisation. It united rather than alienated. By contrast, Black Lives Matter has set things back.

The spectacle of cosseted millionaire footballers repeatedly signalling their virtue in front of hard-pressed fans who simply want to enjoy the match was always going to grate. Most football fans — indeed, most Britons — stand against racism, and they know in their hearts that their country is one of the most tolerant on the planet. Battering them incessantly with a message which implies otherwise has served to create a deep tension which shows no sign of abating. Why is anyone surprised?


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