POLITICS

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Somerset Shot
Posts: 247
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:49 pm
Location: Somerset
Re: POLITICS

Post by Somerset Shot » Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:27 pm

bordon shot wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:30 pm
Mytshot wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:34 pm
Richard Petty wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 4:40 pm


I agree completely with you, the lack of a credible opposition is a disaster for our politics at the moment and I say that as a lifelong Conservative supporter.

A strong opposition is vital to keep a government accountable and a smaller majority in the house is also better as it means that backbenchers within the governing party who maybe have concerns about government policy have more power to have their concerns addressed by threatening to vote against any such policy.
I don't buy this 'there is no credible opposition' argument: I mean, Labour (or any other opposition party) is a worse alternative than this...?
Patel's ignored bullying inquiry
Williamson's exam fiasco
Jenrick's dodgy planning approval
Cummings defended for 'testing his eyesight'
Hancock and Gove's unlawful awarding of pandemic contracts
Hancock's affair
Patel's detention policies breaching human rights
Lack of PPE
The care home scandal
Too late to lockdown
Flip flopping mixed messaging of Covid regulations
Johnson's dodgy flat decoration
Johnson and Sunak trying to avoid self isolation
Johnson lying about the Northern Ireland border
Gove magically dodging self isolation by getting onto a 'pilot' scheme

And that's off the top of my head! How bad do they have to get?
And yet still they are a long way ahead of Labour, if the opinion polls are to be believed. IMO, Labour lost their soul quite a while ago. They were formed as a party for the working class, then the posh socialists infiltrated the party & they lost the very principles that they stood for.

The nail in their coffin will be their stance over Brexit, completely ignored the working class & campaigned the 2019 GE on overturning a democratic decision.
A democratic decision was delivered in 1975. Michael Foot went to the polls in 1983 on a leave the EEC ticket and was soundly beaten. Other than that the main parties in our Parliamentary democracy have gone to the country in subsequent elections proposing to stay within the EU. That didn’t stop Johnson, Cummings, Farage etc from campaigning to overturn the democratic decisions of several decades did it.

The day after every election the opposition start their campaign to overturn the democratic decision of the people. Is that wrong too? Democracy isn’t a one way street.

redblueuptoyou
Posts: 1159
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 1:52 pm
Re: POLITICS

Post by redblueuptoyou » Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:14 am

Bordon Shot - Corbyn was ambivalent over Brexit (no fan of the EU) and campaigned with that confused we’ll sort out a better deal - perhaps one that didn’t involve breaking international law in ‘a limited and specific way’ or endanger the Good Friday agreement- and then go back to the public to vote on it. Essentially do the groundwork before putting the question out there. Something Cameron should have done right at the start.

Not quite as snappy or understandable as Get Brexit Done. I think there was far, far more than Brexit to blame for his disastrous performance. The Lib Dems campaigned pretty much solely on overturning it and sank without trace.

You also have to remember the 48% of those who voted to remain. Surely parties need to take into account their views?

ShotOnTarget
Posts: 253
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 2:22 pm
Re: POLITICS

Post by ShotOnTarget » Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:24 am

redblueuptoyou wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:14 am
Bordon Shot - Corbyn was ambivalent over Brexit (no fan of the EU) and campaigned with that confused we’ll sort out a better deal - perhaps one that didn’t involve breaking international law in ‘a limited and specific way’ or endanger the Good Friday agreement- and then go back to the public to vote on it. Essentially do the groundwork before putting the question out there. Something Cameron should have done right at the start.

Not quite as snappy or understandable as Get Brexit Done. I think there was far, far more than Brexit to blame for his disastrous performance. The Lib Dems campaigned pretty much solely on overturning it and sank without trace.

You also have to remember the 48% of those who voted to remain. Surely parties need to take into account their views?
I wont say what I think as I don't want a ban.

ShotOnTarget
Posts: 253
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 2:22 pm
Re: POLITICS

Post by ShotOnTarget » Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:51 am

Somerset Shot wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:27 pm
A democratic decision was delivered in 1975. Michael Foot went to the polls in 1983 on a leave the EEC ticket and was soundly beaten. Other than that the main parties in our Parliamentary democracy have gone to the country in subsequent elections proposing to stay within the EU. That didn’t stop Johnson, Cummings, Farage etc from campaigning to overturn the democratic decisions of several decades did it.

The day after every election the opposition start their campaign to overturn the democratic decision of the people. Is that wrong too? Democracy isn’t a one way street.
I'm not sure I agree with the bit in bold. Politics is (or should be) about looking at how the decisions made have stood the test of time and then asking the electorate where they want to go next. "Overturn the democratic decision of the people" is putting a different spin on this precept that could be interpreted as being couched in a sense of resentment.

bordon shot
Posts: 487
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:13 pm
Re: POLITICS

Post by bordon shot » Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:25 am

redblueuptoyou wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:14 am
Bordon Shot - Corbyn was ambivalent over Brexit (no fan of the EU) and campaigned with that confused we’ll sort out a better deal - perhaps one that didn’t involve breaking international law in ‘a limited and specific way’ or endanger the Good Friday agreement- and then go back to the public to vote on it. Essentially do the groundwork before putting the question out there. Something Cameron should have done right at the start.

Not quite as snappy or understandable as Get Brexit Done. I think there was far, far more than Brexit to blame for his disastrous performance. The Lib Dems campaigned pretty much solely on overturning it and sank without trace.

You also have to remember the 48% of those who voted to remain. Surely parties need to take into account their views?
My point still stands - Got taken over by the posh socialists & ignored the working class & what their views were.

poppy seed
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:49 pm
Location: Antibes in the summer
Re: POLITICS

Post by poppy seed » Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:11 am

Come on boys they are all hopeless.


‘’Sir John Chilcot delivered a devastating critique of Tony Blair’s decision to go to war in Iraq in 2003, concluding that Britain chose to join the US invasion before “peaceful options for disarmament” had been exhausted. His report, which amounts to arguably the most scathing official verdict given on any modern British prime minister, concludes:
* Tony Blair exaggerated the case for war in Iraq
* There was no imminent threat from Saddam Hussein
* Britain’s intelligence agencies produced "flawed information"
* George Bush largely ignored UK advice on postwar planning
* The UK military were ill-equipped for the task
* UK-US relations would not have been harmed had the UK stayed out of the war’’

And now, ‘call me Tony’ is giving the world his advice on the global pandemic.

The current government guidance on COVID, to apply individual judgement and responsibility, should be extended to NNDR, Corporation Tax and the driving of my new super car!

80fc
Posts: 380
Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 12:20 pm
Re: POLITICS

Post by 80fc » Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:33 am

Bob wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:21 pm
MANNIMIST wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:38 pm
Off you go then lads - start debating.
I’d rather discuss how wasps operate in Peru 🇵🇪 to be honest MR Mist!
How many White Anglo-Saxon Protestants are there in Peru

Fuggletim
Posts: 837
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:16 pm
Location: Whitehill
Re: POLITICS

Post by Fuggletim » Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:50 am

It's quite true to say that the old bridge at Shanklin Station has gone, but beyond that the trackbed to Wroxall is a footpath and cyclway until you arrive at Wroxall Station where it has been built over. Beyond Wroxall, the trackbed down to Manor Lane bridge seems to be waterlogged and the short cutting beyond to Ventnor Tunnel (sometimes known as St Boniface tunnel) has been filled in. However if there is a will, then of course there is a way.

Ventnor had 2 x rail routes and the other one came in from Newport (via Merstone and Godshill). This closed in the early 1950's an realistically has no chance of re-opening. Ventnor West Station still exists in the middle of a housing estate, but the approaches to the Station have all been built over as part of the estate. St Lawrence (or High Hat) Tunnel can still be found if you know where to look, but the Ventnor end runs straight into house! Godshill and Whitwell Ststions still exist as does some of the trackbed, but it would be far more of a challenge both physically and financially to be viable.

Now then, LBS why is Wroxall dear to your heart? Is it something to do with the now closed and very dilapidated "Worsley Arms" outside the Station or the old Manor Inn ( renamed the Star) about 1/4 up the road? 😄

scorp
Posts: 455
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:54 pm
Location: England
Re: POLITICS

Post by scorp » Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:13 pm

80fc wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:33 am
Bob wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:21 pm
MANNIMIST wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:38 pm
Off you go then lads - start debating.
I’d rather discuss how wasps operate in Peru 🇵🇪 to be honest MR Mist!
How many White Anglo-Saxon Protestants are there in Peru
Well spotted ;)

scorp
Posts: 455
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:54 pm
Location: England
Re: POLITICS

Post by scorp » Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:35 pm

poppy seed wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:11 am
Come on boys they are all hopeless.


‘’Sir John Chilcot delivered a devastating critique of Tony Blair’s decision to go to war in Iraq in 2003, concluding that Britain chose to join the US invasion before “peaceful options for disarmament” had been exhausted. His report, which amounts to arguably the most scathing official verdict given on any modern British prime minister, concludes:
* Tony Blair exaggerated the case for war in Iraq
* There was no imminent threat from Saddam Hussein
* Britain’s intelligence agencies produced "flawed information"
* George Bush largely ignored UK advice on postwar planning
* The UK military were ill-equipped for the task
* UK-US relations would not have been harmed had the UK stayed out of the war’’

And now, ‘call me Tony’ is giving the world his advice on the global pandemic.

The current government guidance on COVID, to apply individual judgement and responsibility, should be extended to NNDR, Corporation Tax and the driving of my new super car!
What car is that? I'd guess not the new Tesla Model S Plaid, or its opposites, a refurbed 1980s Citroen Pallas or an earlier Citroen DS, maybe/probably the DS 20. Any would look just fine in Antibes and your nearby bolt hole. See link for a 1971 DS. I need this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzW_ERSgFRY

Crowthorne
Posts: 1091
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:18 pm
Re: POLITICS

Post by Crowthorne » Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:13 pm

redblueuptoyou wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:24 pm
Mytshot wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:34 pm
Richard Petty wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 4:40 pm


I agree completely with you, the lack of a credible opposition is a disaster for our politics at the moment and I say that as a lifelong Conservative supporter.

A strong opposition is vital to keep a government accountable and a smaller majority in the house is also better as it means that backbenchers within the governing party who maybe have concerns about government policy have more power to have their concerns addressed by threatening to vote against any such policy.
I don't buy this 'there is no credible opposition' argument: I mean, Labour (or any other opposition party) is a worse alternative than this...?
Patel's ignored bullying inquiry
Williamson's exam fiasco
Jenrick's dodgy planning approval
Cummings defended for 'testing his eyesight'
Hancock and Gove's unlawful awarding of pandemic contracts
Hancock's affair
Patel's detention policies breaching human rights
Lack of PPE
The care home scandal
Too late to lockdown
Flip flopping mixed messaging of Covid regulations
Johnson's dodgy flat decoration
Johnson and Sunak trying to avoid self isolation
Johnson lying about the Northern Ireland border
Gove magically dodging self isolation by getting onto a 'pilot' scheme

And that's off the top of my head! How bad do they have to get?
Breaking international law ‘in a limited and specific way’.
Planning to starve kids during a pandemic.
2,200 food banks in the UK.

And this is the latest: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... hange.html
I wasn't going to get involved in this debate. But when nonsense, like planning to starve kids is said I can't help it. I was always taught that having kids is a gift and carries an obligation to care for them. It is not the responsibility of the state to feed them, that comes with parental duty. If you choose to bring children into the world, be prepared to undertake your duty to them.

redblueuptoyou
Posts: 1159
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 1:52 pm
Re: POLITICS

Post by redblueuptoyou » Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:36 pm

Crowthorne wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:13 pm
redblueuptoyou wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:24 pm
Mytshot wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:34 pm


I don't buy this 'there is no credible opposition' argument: I mean, Labour (or any other opposition party) is a worse alternative than this...?
Patel's ignored bullying inquiry
Williamson's exam fiasco
Jenrick's dodgy planning approval
Cummings defended for 'testing his eyesight'
Hancock and Gove's unlawful awarding of pandemic contracts
Hancock's affair
Patel's detention policies breaching human rights
Lack of PPE
The care home scandal
Too late to lockdown
Flip flopping mixed messaging of Covid regulations
Johnson's dodgy flat decoration
Johnson and Sunak trying to avoid self isolation
Johnson lying about the Northern Ireland border
Gove magically dodging self isolation by getting onto a 'pilot' scheme

And that's off the top of my head! How bad do they have to get?
Breaking international law ‘in a limited and specific way’.
Planning to starve kids during a pandemic.
2,200 food banks in the UK.

And this is the latest: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... hange.html
I wasn't going to get involved in this debate. But when nonsense, like planning to starve kids is said I can't help it. I was always taught that having kids is a gift and carries an obligation to care for them. It is not the responsibility of the state to feed them, that comes with parental duty. If you choose to bring children into the world, be prepared to undertake your duty to them.
In a pandemic, when so many people were out of work and families were struggling through no fault of their own, it’s up to the state to look after its citizens, surely.

Or are you happy to see people - especially young children - go hungry and all the mental and physical toil that brings to their loved ones?

The fact they quickly backtracked (twice) when a footballer called them out speaks volumes.

Compassion is nothing to be ashamed of.

poppy seed
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:49 pm
Location: Antibes in the summer
Re: POLITICS

Post by poppy seed » Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:09 pm

scorp wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:35 pm
poppy seed wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:11 am
Come on boys they are all hopeless.


‘’Sir John Chilcot delivered a devastating critique of Tony Blair’s decision to go to war in Iraq in 2003, concluding that Britain chose to join the US invasion before “peaceful options for disarmament” had been exhausted. His report, which amounts to arguably the most scathing official verdict given on any modern British prime minister, concludes:
* Tony Blair exaggerated the case for war in Iraq
* There was no imminent threat from Saddam Hussein
* Britain’s intelligence agencies produced "flawed information"
* George Bush largely ignored UK advice on postwar planning
* The UK military were ill-equipped for the task
* UK-US relations would not have been harmed had the UK stayed out of the war’’

And now, ‘call me Tony’ is giving the world his advice on the global pandemic.

The current government guidance on COVID, to apply individual judgement and responsibility, should be extended to NNDR, Corporation Tax and the driving of my new super car!

What car is that? I'd guess not the new Tesla Model S Plaid, or its opposites, a refurbed 1980s Citroen Pallas or an earlier Citroen DS, maybe/probably the DS 20. Any would look just fine in Antibes and your nearby bolt hole. See link for a 1971 DS. I need this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzW_ERSgFRY
Silly scorpy. It’s a 2020 Porsche GT4 in Miami Blue, the colour being as close to the med as I could get! Wave if you see me.

Crowthorne
Posts: 1091
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:18 pm
Re: POLITICS

Post by Crowthorne » Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:16 pm

The state maintained welfare payments throughout and help was there for those in need.
Your second point, am I happy to see children go hungry, is purile and not worthy of a reply.

Cph.shots
Posts: 495
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 8:44 pm
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Re: POLITICS

Post by Cph.shots » Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:25 pm

Crowthorne wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:13 pm
redblueuptoyou wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:24 pm
Mytshot wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:34 pm


I don't buy this 'there is no credible opposition' argument: I mean, Labour (or any other opposition party) is a worse alternative than this...?
Patel's ignored bullying inquiry
Williamson's exam fiasco
Jenrick's dodgy planning approval
Cummings defended for 'testing his eyesight'
Hancock and Gove's unlawful awarding of pandemic contracts
Hancock's affair
Patel's detention policies breaching human rights
Lack of PPE
The care home scandal
Too late to lockdown
Flip flopping mixed messaging of Covid regulations
Johnson's dodgy flat decoration
Johnson and Sunak trying to avoid self isolation
Johnson lying about the Northern Ireland border
Gove magically dodging self isolation by getting onto a 'pilot' scheme

And that's off the top of my head! How bad do they have to get?
Breaking international law ‘in a limited and specific way’.
Planning to starve kids during a pandemic.
2,200 food banks in the UK.

And this is the latest: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... hange.html
I wasn't going to get involved in this debate. But when nonsense, like planning to starve kids is said I can't help it. I was always taught that having kids is a gift and carries an obligation to care for them. It is not the responsibility of the state to feed them, that comes with parental duty. If you choose to bring children into the world, be prepared to undertake your duty to them.
..... but if there aren't enough proper English children being born , we'll have to import even more foreigners to do the work that we don't want to do anyway.


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